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post #11 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by snowklinger View Post
In case you havent noticed the people with the power in this country are trying to send a good portion of our young people overseas in the armed services, so that when they come back they have a loyal police force to do their bidding and protect their constituencies. This also gives them the beneficial effect of splitting our forces, so that those of us with the conscience to ask questions and call out bullshit can be kept down by our own peers.

People talk about the housing market and wall street as culprits (talking about economic woes), and while they are certainly CULPABLE...comon ur telling us that war over the last 10 years in the middle east is free? or cost-effective? or profitable? You only have to watch a little news to know that hundreds of millions of dollars are pouring out of our pockets at a steady clip into desert sand thousands of miles away.

I try not to get into it too much cuz i hate ALL of the political parties and what they have to offer, and its obvious that most people would prefer to keep their heads in the sand anyway.

U can infer whatever politics you want but eyes wide open people.

Dont confuse my stance pls for anti-war or left wing. I'm just anti-stupidity, we dont have a voice unfortunately.

Great post.

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post #12 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 07:07 PM
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The point being made is that in an relatively balanced and equal society, nobody should live like an executive or make that much money. When one person can spend enough money to support more then 10 average people, you have a serious imbalance and a serious problem.

It's a scary thing for a country so steeped in consumeristic, capitalistic ideals, but if you want a more equal, opportunistic society for everyone, vast disparities in wealth between people cannot exist.
I agree with you here. I was born in the UK and live in Japan and I would like to add that this is a global issue.
I understand you are in the US and thats where the protests are kicking off, but this is global.

People all over the world are sick of a system where a very small few take way more than they need at the expense of the many. A system where our so called "news" is filtered and controlled to serve the interests of those with the money and power.

A system where democracy is just a thin vale, a pretense, and the people really controlling political policy and agenda are the super rich elite.

All over the world its a time for change. A much needed change.

I am not a Marxist or suggesting we have to destroy our governments. I just think that there has to be a more of a balance in the way resources, money and power is shared by the people of the earth.

People say the economy is screwed and that we are in a recession (again globally). Well yes, but if that "economy" is based on and kept alive by buying shit you don't need, maybe it should be screwed. Maybe it should fall apart for something new to come out.

At the end of the day the sun shines and plants through their ability to harvest the suns energy, make food available to us and the other creatures on the planet. Water to drink is constantly made available again by the suns energy supply (evaporating water from the sea to make clouds).

Its the sun and mother earth that supports the essentials of life on our planet. Not the BS "economy".
The last time I checked the sun didn't know shit about this recession or the Dow Jones.
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post #13 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dreampow View Post
I agree with you here. I was born in the UK and live in Japan and I would like to add that this is a global issue.
I understand you are in the US and thats where the protests are kicking off, but this is global.

People all over the world are sick of a system where a very small few take way more than they need at the expense of the many. A system where our so called "news" is filtered and controlled to serve the interests of those with the money and power.

A system where democracy is just a thin vale, a pretense, and the people really controlling political policy and agenda are the super rich elite.

All over the world its a time for change. A much needed change.

I am not a Marxist or suggesting we have to destroy our governments. I just think that there has to be a more of a balance in the way resources, money and power is shared by the people of the earth.

People say the economy is screwed and that we are in a recession (again globally). Well yes, but if that "economy" is based on and kept alive by buying shit you don't need, maybe it should be screwed. Maybe it should fall apart for something new to come out.

At the end of the day the sun shines and plants through their ability to harvest the suns energy, make food available to us and the other creatures on the planet. Water to drink is constantly made available again by the suns energy supply (evaporating water from the sea to make clouds).

Its the sun and mother earth that supports the essentials of life on our planet. Not the BS "economy".
The last time I checked the sun didn't know shit about this recession or the Dow Jones.
You are completely right, It's just that the U.S based protests are fascinating to me because normally Americans are lazy/apathetic and give up any struggle at the first speed-bump. This is changing because people no longer have the choice of being lazy/apathetic, and that is a major milestone in the road to change.

Globally, we are really at a critical point in history where something big is going to happen, and the results will be far reaching into the future, for better or for worse. I read the NY Times most days at school in between classes and over the past month it's been nothing but articles on political unrest domestically and particularly globally. The shit is finally hitting the fan and people are pissed, the interesting thing will be whether the underrepresented majority can organize itself to overthrow economic/social oppression, and what the reaction will be from those currently in power.

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post #14 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 07:39 PM
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The shit is finally hitting the fan and people are pissed, the interesting thing will be whether the underrepresented majority can organize itself to overthrow economic/social oppression, and what the reaction will be from those currently in power.
In other words how the Sith lords and their empire will react to the return of the Jedi. I expect they will be pissed.
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post #15 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 07:46 PM
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The protests have been wildly effective thus far.
You expect policy change to happen over night?



Great interview that oddly enough never aired on Fox News - New York Observer: Exclusive "Occupy Wall Street" Unaired Fox Footage - YouTube
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post #16 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 08:40 PM
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In other words how the Sith lords and their empire will react to the return of the Jedi. I expect they will be pissed.
Haha, awesome analogy. Pretty much like Star Wars.

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Originally Posted by nomembername
The protests have been wildly effective thus far.
You also expect the representatives to actually listen to their constituents? We are where we are because those using the pen have done so with complete disregard to the rest of us. They will continue to ignore those who speak against them until they can do so no longer.

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post #17 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 08:58 PM
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The point being made is that in an relatively balanced and equal society, nobody should live like an executive or make that much money. When one person can spend enough money to support more then 10 average people, you have a serious imbalance and a serious problem.

It's a scary thing for a country so steeped in consumeristic, capitalistic ideals, but if you want a more equal, opportunistic society for everyone, vast disparities in wealth between people cannot exist.
See in my mind if you get rid of disparities in wealth, your essentially creating a flat society (communism anyone?) where nobody has opportunity.

In my opinion if you have the desire and means to create wealth for yourself, then you should have every right to. But you have to pay your fair share.

Lifestyle shouldn't be a government policy. If a simple minimalistic society is what you want then find others who want the same and start one. If you want 15 cars and a mansion and the means to get them, whatever its not my position to tell you how to live your life.

The whole point of this country is to have a minimalistic government where people are free to live how they choose. And here we are, stuck with retard republicans and dumbass democrats. Both of which are more concerned with trivial things than the big picture of what America should be.
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post #18 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 09:10 PM
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I find the idea that we need to get rid of wealth disparities (perceived or real) to be not relevant to any solution to the problem of increasing the aggregate standard of living. Do some people make a disporportionate amount of wealth compared to their contribution to society? Likely. But to suggest that some roles performed in society aren't more highly valued than others is utter nonesense. There are roles performed in society which require an elevated level of ability, experience, talent and/or just willingness to deal with stress and if there is nothing that will incentivize people to take these jobs (the ability to be compensated more richly) then who is going to choose to perform them?

It is also problematic that the centralization and cosolidation of power called for in order to mandate this universal fairness is the very same channel by which it our current system has become corrupted into a corporatist state wherein the interest of business is more important than the interest of the constiuency and of the Rule of Law.
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post #19 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 09:12 PM
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The whole point of this country is to have a minimalistic government where people are free to live how they choose. And here we are, stuck with retard republicans and dumbass democrats. Both of which are more concerned with trivial things than the big picture of what America should be.
The ironic thing about our situation is we have a set of government established to do exactly this: the States are supposed to set precedent for things like welfare programs, education and trade regulations which, alongside being perfectly Constitutional, allows the People fine control over what kind of society they want to live in. It's just no one respects our governing document.
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post #20 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 09:39 PM
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if you want to live a simple life i don't really see how wall st. is holding you back
Yes, the banks, lenders, and investors have been shown to be significantly less than astute when it comes to lending money.

But....Joe Average has also been shown to be irresponsible when it comes to borrowing money.

The housing market is a great example. Far too many people borrowed far too much money to buy houses far beyond their means. Too many were a work interruption, an interest rate hike, an economic slowdown away from foreclosure the day they moved in.

Yeah, the banks and Wall St. deserve some heat for poor lending decisions but Joe Average needs to take some responsibility for poor borrowing decisions.

Wall St. isn't stopping you from living within your means
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