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Old 11-16-2011, 03:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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We seem to agree that the corporations and the rich (however so loosely defined) control government. With that in mind isn't it just a little bit ridiculous to believe that true change will come about by simply asking the government to regulate their owners? We are not their masters. It's not really in their interest to listen to us, so they don't listen to us. They probably never did listen to us, which begins to explain how we got where we are today. And they'll continue fleecing everyone until enough people wake the fuck up to make real change inevitable.

It doesn't really matter what you believe or what you want. What matters is what will happen. And voting for the same old shit, playing that same old game is not going to yield results substantially different.

Swallow as many soundbites from either "side" of the aisle. They're all designed to placate you, to blame, to point fingers, to create scapegoats and instigate class warfare, to pit people against one another & to encourage dependence on the system controlled by the elites, rather than rather fostering cooperation and real community.
I disagree. Our political system is spectral. It's an economic power struggle between concentration and equal distribution. The right just has more money to fund the campaign. The left has to play by the same rules or they don't play at all. It doesn't mean they agree with the rules. They're not equals.

And really how do you foster cooperation and real community while communities are being sticken with poverty and grief. Austerity is the pathway to despair.
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:04 PM   #32 (permalink)
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There are a lot of people as intelligent or even more intelligent than Barry. Having a high intelligence does not automatically make you "qualified" for anything.

Great posts David. One doesn't need Hawking's intelligence...just honesty and clarity. Both qualities have been swallowed by the political system and re purposed later as something "new" like "change" (I still have to see any by the way).

I am sure he has good intentions, but at the same time he is a pragmatist, and knows how politics work. On top of that he has EVE#RY single republican against for a principle, and of course he's double tied to Big Corp.

I don't see a simple solution, but for sure as hell I don't see a REPUBLICAN solution. They are completely insane.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:19 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Don't vote.


It's sad when your elections are about picking the lesser of two evils.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:17 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Don't vote.
How do you tell the difference between someone who doesn't vote because they're disgusted with the parties and someone who doesn't vote because they don't give a damn? Answer: you can't.

I suggest that if you're that disgusted with the process, there's a way to register that disgust: get out to vote, and spoil your ballot. They keep track of spoiled ballots, and if it ever gets to the point where "spoiled ballot" beats out all the candidates you can bet they'll pay attention.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:26 PM   #35 (permalink)
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How do you tell the difference between someone who doesn't vote because they're disgusted with the parties and someone who doesn't vote because they don't give a damn? Answer: you can't.

I suggest that if you're that disgusted with the process, there's a way to register that disgust: get out to vote, and spoil your ballot. They keep track of spoiled ballots, and if it ever gets to the point where "spoiled ballot" beats out all the candidates you can bet they'll pay attention.

Just vote for me, I stand for more snow. Powder to the people...
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Old 11-17-2011, 07:10 PM   #36 (permalink)
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That's fine, but it makes him less of a disaster than all of the fucking morons that are lined up to vote for against him. It's so obvious that there is no real GOP party, people who vote for them are spitting in their own faces. Obama may be the other side of the same coin, but at least the democrats make an effort to fool us.
So lets get this straight...if you vote against Obama to support the Republican candidate then you are a fucking moron??? Real intelligent argument and great way to support your Democratic party while making yourself look a bit ignorant...I have to believe you are smarter than this. At least the majority of this thread is comprised of interesting perspective from advocates of both sides, which has been enjoyable.

As long as politicians legislate based on what they see in the rear view mirror versus thinking about the future, neither party is going to be able to do a damn thing. Case in point, we'll bail out the banks only so they have the cash so that they then can be sued for their stupidity. Then in a few years, it will happen all over again, learning nothing from the past.

Are you also one of those people that believes everything you read...I hope you aren't that naive??? This along with ignorance are 2 key ingredients that have played a key role to get our country to where it is. The government lets us know what they want us to know...hoping no one questions their motives.

Kind of like if you think of our government as a board of director, the President as the CEO and the United States is their company...we, the people are the employees of this company that work the various lines of business within the company. Anything we buy is from the company store...you see where I'm going. Just like big corporations, the dumber the board can keep their workers, the easier it is for them to run their company.

Andy

Last edited by Krug; 11-17-2011 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 11-17-2011, 07:42 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by david_z View Post
We seem to agree that the corporations and the rich (however so loosely defined) control government. With that in mind isn't it just a little bit ridiculous to believe that true change will come about by simply asking the government to regulate their owners? We are not their masters. It's not really in their interest to listen to us, so they don't listen to us. They probably never did listen to us, which begins to explain how we got where we are today. And they'll continue fleecing everyone until enough people wake the fuck up to make real change inevitable.

It doesn't really matter what you believe or what you want. What matters is what will happen. And voting for the same old shit, playing that same old game is not going to yield results substantially different.

Swallow as many soundbites from either "side" of the aisle. They're all designed to placate you, to blame, to point fingers, to create scapegoats and instigate class warfare, to pit people against one another & to encourage dependence on the system controlled by the elites, rather than rather fostering cooperation and real community.
I think this is an accurate summary of what is going on.
Do you remember how exited people were when Obama got into office?
All around the world people where hailing the dawn of a new age.

Fraid not. It was just a smoke screen to make people believe things would change. All around the world people bought it. The people pulling the strings have not changed and will not change through "democratic" elections. They own both the main candidates. I would go so far as to say its impossible to be a genuine contender unless they own you.
Its just a facade to make people believe they are choosing what happens on capital hill.

The UK is just the same. Its the same story around the developed world.

I believe that change is coming and with a non violent revolution. People just need to learn to live consciously and live as independently as possible. To stand on their own feet as much as possible and support each other in their communities.
The community is something that has been stripped away because people are much easier to control as individuals and individual families. Divide and conquer has been an effective strategy.

If enough people can wake up and learn to live more independently from the system this can happen. Bottom up change because top down promised changed is never going to arrive.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:39 PM   #38 (permalink)
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So lets get this straight...if you vote against Obama to support the Republican candidate then you are a fucking moron??? Real intelligent argument and great way to support your Democratic party while making yourself look a bit ignorant...I have to believe you are smarter than this. At least the majority of this thread is comprised of interesting perspective from advocates of both sides, which has been enjoyable.

As long as politicians legislate based on what they see in the rear view mirror versus thinking about the future, neither party is going to be able to do a damn thing. Case in point, we'll bail out the banks only so they have the cash so that they then can be sued for their stupidity. Then in a few years, it will happen all over again, learning nothing from the past.

Are you also one of those people that believes everything you read...I hope you aren't that naive??? This along with ignorance are 2 key ingredients that have played a key role to get our country to where it is. The government lets us know what they want us to know...hoping no one questions their motives.

Kind of like if you think of our government as a board of director, the President as the CEO and the United States is their company...we, the people are the employees of this company that work the various lines of business within the company. Anything we buy is from the company store...you see where I'm going. Just like big corporations, the dumber the board can keep their workers, the easier it is for them to run their company.

Andy


My point still stands, there is no good reason to vote for the Regressive Party. If you are a billionaire, then it makes sense but you're scum already - so what's the point of hiding that?

The only good reason to vote for the democrats is that they aren't the republicans. I don't see anything in your wall of text that disputes this.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:52 PM   #39 (permalink)
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My point still stands, there is no good reason to vote for the Regressive Party. If you are a billionaire, then it makes sense but you're scum already - so what's the point of hiding that?

The only good reason to vote for the democrats is that they aren't the republicans. I don't see anything in your wall of text that disputes this.
I completely agree with this statement you made earlier in the thread: "There is a very definite distinction between the two parties, but lets not lie to ourselves - both are playing for the same team ultimately. The people with money.", however it seems like it contradicts what you are now saying later in the thread...and for the record, I am far more Republican in my views than Democrat and not ashamed to throw it there.

That being said however, I find the entire government to be greedy self centered turds. Trying to defend either party one over the other in my opinion is like trying to polish a turd...at the end of a day it's still a turd.

Andy
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:52 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Just vote for me, I stand for more snow. Powder to the people...
Change your name to "Above, None O. T. " and you're in!
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