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IdahoFreshies · 12-14-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyCH

Do you actually realize that a lot of the "occupiers" HAD good jobs, houses, and a real life where they paid taxes at one time? I saw an interview with a mechanical engineer (talking about extending unemployment) said he turned down a job...at Mcdonalds. So this guy who busted his ass in school, worked for a firm for years, got outsourced to another another country should "get a job" any job no matter what?

certainly not a job at mcdonalds, infact i dont see how he could be offered a job at mcdonalds due to him being over qualified, unless he is in some corporate job. but how is being in the ows camp, or protesting "wall street" benefiting his job search in any way? what did he say oh ya, im bored of looking for employment, so i think im going to go be a protestor now! How long should unemployment run? i say 6 months. you get FREE money for 6 months. after that you are on your own.

AcroPhile · 12-14-2011, 12:24 PM

Thinking that OWS is about getting free hand-outs or that the only thing keeping people from being apart of the 1% is a lack of work ethic shows a complete misunderstanding of what this movement is all about.

IdahoFreshies · 12-14-2011, 12:38 PM

im not saying the ows is about being in the 1%. its not either the "1%" or dirt poor hobos, there is an in between. i am all for the ending corporate influence on politicians and the running of the government. one of my biggest gripes about the current govt is that its all about me and not we. thats where i support them. but after that they start getting a bit more pushy and i dont agree with what they want to change.

JeffreyCH · 12-14-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoFreshies

certainly not a job at mcdonalds, infact i dont see how he could be offered a job at mcdonalds due to him being over qualified, unless he is in some corporate job. but how is being in the ows camp, or protesting "wall street" benefiting his job search in any way? what did he say oh ya, im bored of looking for employment, so i think im going to go be a protestor now!

Part of receiving unemployment is that you have to apply for x amount of jobs each week, in Nebraska I think it's 2 place's that have openings. At least that what it was 20 years ago when I got it. After so long you run out of places to apply in your field, so you go anyplace that's hiring. As for why the guy was there, my guess would be because he's pissed that his job got shipped off?

I just caught a part of the interview. I'm not sure why you believe that everyone that is protesting is living in a camp, many do what they can while still working.

As for MPD's opinion on being multi-talented. I can build a house from the ground up, maintain heavy equipment, certified to weld about anything, program php,mysql,java,css and I doubt if I could find a job right now. Let me ask you this, could you live off your wages at Denny's if that was all you had? Who cares about fair, do you think it's right that you cook the food that makes the company money while some dude sits in an office doing nothing all day and makes 20-100 times more then you?

**And no, I have no clue exactly what a CEO does**

snowjeeper · 12-14-2011, 01:25 PM

Lol Idaho you don't know shit.

IdahoFreshies · 12-14-2011, 06:42 PM

oh come on, i just like saying the word hippie, its not demeaning or slandering, i just like calling people hippies

dreampow · 12-14-2011, 08:02 PM

Good to hear its still strong in the US, there is an occupy movement in Leeds which is my home town in the UK. Its spreading nicely. Once more this is exactly the opposite of the mainstream media propaganda, which would have us believe its all but over.

While the mainstream media would have us believe these people are leeches looking for free handouts thats clearly misinformation and only applies to a small few.

This is about the 99% percent demanding a level playing field. A fair system. Thats all. Its inherently unfair at the moment.

Those who say CEOs and people in the 1% deserve it know very little about the world of the 1%s. You might know people in the higher brackets of wealth, but thats far from the real top of the pyramid.

I assure you form first hand experience the people at the top exploiting the rest know nothing of hard work.
Its about your family and connections what "group" you belong to.

Yes they will wheel out the few people who made it big with hard work and say "look its fair, they made it". The reality is that the real wealth, property, and power is held by people who have been handing it down to friends and relatives for generations.

I believe we are at a crossroads and fundamental change is coming.
Why can't we have a system of capitalism that allows for real taxation of those making the most?
Why can't we have real democracy?
Why can't we have a system that supports those who need help instead of bailing out banks who intentionally created the problem in the first place?

Saying "its always been corrupt and always will be" is just giving up. Thats exactly the feeling that TV and mass media is working to create. A sense that its hopeless and you have no power to change anything.
May as well bend over and drop your pants.

It can change and it will.

If you observe nature thats what it shows us. Imbalance cannot exist for long. Sooner or later the balance must be restored.

IdahoFreshies · 12-15-2011, 01:29 AM

alright since i clearly am not on the same page, fill me in on what you think the objectives of the movement and what goals they are trying to accomplish and what the problem is. and it goes without mention that "greedy bastards" is not the problem, some specifics or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowjeeper

Lol Idaho you don't know shit.

i dont see you saying shit...unless you want to hop on snowolfs train and follow along like a bitch in his overwhelming one man assault on me, then contribute something useful or get the fuck out.*

*let it be known that i am being a complete and total assfuck because this is the anything goes section, and i intend to be an asshole when applicable (which should be most of the time). in fact i am going out of my way to be a cock in this instance simply because i can. i am absolutely not like this IRL or anywhere else ever, it just feels fun to just be a dick every now and then

also another note, i hate being refered to on the internet in places like forums by a quick saying of my screen name. my name is mark, that sounds much more conversational.

Quote:

get misled by these bastards to believe something about these people that is so untrue.

im not being "misled" by these bastards, well at least i dont THINK i am, i am spewing all of my own personal opinions based mostly on my own up bringing...which big surprise, is the middle class! its really dam hard to sympathize with these people who all say the system isn't fair, the system is broken to shit, when the majority of americans are doing just fine and dandy in it.

JeffreyCH · 12-15-2011, 03:53 AM

Well Mark, I guess what I want to know is why you (like countless millions) find the need to be any different on the internet then in real life? If you prefer we use your real first name, then why not use it in your screen name? BTW, yes my real first name is Jeffrey, prefer Jeff but meh....

I don't really see where Snowolf is attacking you personally, just your ideals, and being uninformed about what is really going on in the world around you. While I agree the manner in which the OWS protests have been (un) organised to this point are hurting the message that needs to get out. It is still the right of every person in this country to stand up for themselves. Somehow people like you have been lead to believe that just because someone doesn't have a college education that they didn't bust their ass to get things in life. If fact, I see the opposite, I worked my ass off every summer for the last 3 years of high school at my uncles construction company (50+ hrs a week) I went straight into a factory after graduation, again 40-50 hrs a week. I always viewed the kids that went to college as lazy little fucks that just wanted to fuck off for another 4-8 years without getting a real job. Even though over the years I worked with idiots that had engineering degrees who know much less about actually building anything, I still gained some respect for those peoples opinions.

At the same time, I watched things slip bit by bit into where we are today. People thought I was nuts when I told them Reagan was a puppet, come on now, how could no one see it. An actor with the former head of the CIA as vice president? How is that not obvious? Then that same former head of the CIA becomes president? Then his idiot son? Those 2 morons opening trade (slave) relations with China? Start connecting the dots yet? Throw Clinton into the mix with NAFTA tossed in there, and you start to see the lack of separation of the parties. They all used the smokescreen of relatively novel social issues to blindside the american public. Do you honestly think our country is going to hell if gay's have rights? Or if women get abortions? The whole time behind the scenes the money men on wall street were pulling the strings, making themselves obscenely wealthy with out actually producing anything towards our gross national product. We go into a system where we produce less and borrow more to make the ones at the top more money, and with that came more power. Then to cover our debt's we simply print more money, since it is based on nothing. The dollar is the world reserve note, we can make as many as we want and they are just accepted. If you look at other developed countries, say Germany, in order for them to buy oil, they don't use the Deutsche mark, first they have to convert those into dollars, then use dollars to buy oil. In that way they cannot spend more then they produce, same with other countries, and this is part of how Russia was ran bankrupt in the 80's. Other countries are losing faith in the dollar, and talking about switching to the Yen or yeuon(sp? currency of China), meaning we will no longer be number one, in fact it will collapse our economy completely. We operate almost completely on loans, what happens if our creditors no longer accept the dollars we use to pay our debts?

Why would anyone want to do this, first of all, America is not well liked in the world, we have used our advantage since WW2 to manipulate governments and economies all over the globe. Somewhere along the line we developed a delusion that the rest of the world should be a democracy, when in fact that was only a ploy to try and get cheap (slave) labor out of undeveloped countries. Take a look at the depression of the 30's, it was caused by robber barons in industry (not going to explain how, look it up if you want) during that time do you think that the extremely wealthy ever stood in a bread line? Sure they lost a few bucks, but at the end of it all they still had their wealth. The exact same thing is happening today, if you look at the trends in the stock market between 1936-1942, and 2005-2011 the graphs line up almost to the percentile. Now you may be asking why the hell would anyone in America want to engineer the collapse of our own economy? Because they will not lose anything. Take a look into the psychology of megalomania. Why would the Romans want to take over the world? Why would Hitler want to take over the world? The thing is, we have a pack of megalomaniacs running things behind the scenes. We breed them like bunnies in this country, after generations of being wealthy they have become drunk with power. There is only so many multi million dollar mansions, yachts, ect they can buy before they are no longer satisfied, so they play a new game.

I really could go on and on and on, but I won't. Do I think that common people are aware of all this, or even see the connections I do? No not at all, the only thing people know is that shit is fucked up, and who is to blame. As far as I'm concerned these protests are about 20 years late, and it's more than an uphill battle. It puts a hairline sliver of my faith back in humanity to see people actually start to wake up and realize how fucked up humanity is. Things have been this way through out recorded human history, the big difference is we now have the ability to communicate openly with anyone, anywhere. I have people from all over the world on my IM lists that I chat with, this gives me an insight into what it is really like to be in those places.

**HoboMaster** · 12-15-2011, 11:30 AM

Really I see this whole thing as an ideological battle between those who want the ability to obtain everything and those who think that ability should not exist. What you are starting to see globally is an extremely important and remarkable change in ideals, morals and values. This is what we need, because the future will not support capitalistic values. We will have to rediscover what made us happy for thousands of years in the abscess of material excess and over-complicated societies. Things like the importance of family, community, personal relationships and symbiotic connections to nature will have to take precedence. Slowly people are realizing that for all of the natural and social destruction their mansions and yacht's have caused, neither things have made them truly happy. We will have to start thinking in terms of "we" instead of "me", if only for the utilitarian concept of survival.

In my opinion the sooner the shit hits the fan, the sooner we can start fixing global society. People are blissfully ignorant until crisis shows up on their front doorstop and hands them a due date.

12-15-2011, 03:53 AM	#19 (permalink)
JeffreyCH -LIFETIME MEMBER- Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,481	Well Mark, I guess what I want to know is why you (like countless millions) find the need to be any different on the internet then in real life? If you prefer we use your real first name, then why not use it in your screen name? BTW, yes my real first name is Jeffrey, prefer Jeff but meh.... I don't really see where Snowolf is attacking you personally, just your ideals, and being uninformed about what is really going on in the world around you. While I agree the manner in which the OWS protests have been (un) organised to this point are hurting the message that needs to get out. It is still the right of every person in this country to stand up for themselves. Somehow people like you have been lead to believe that just because someone doesn't have a college education that they didn't bust their ass to get things in life. If fact, I see the opposite, I worked my ass off every summer for the last 3 years of high school at my uncles construction company (50+ hrs a week) I went straight into a factory after graduation, again 40-50 hrs a week. I always viewed the kids that went to college as lazy little fucks that just wanted to fuck off for another 4-8 years without getting a real job. Even though over the years I worked with idiots that had engineering degrees who know much less about actually building anything, I still gained some respect for those peoples opinions. At the same time, I watched things slip bit by bit into where we are today. People thought I was nuts when I told them Reagan was a puppet, come on now, how could no one see it. An actor with the former head of the CIA as vice president? How is that not obvious? Then that same former head of the CIA becomes president? Then his idiot son? Those 2 morons opening trade (slave) relations with China? Start connecting the dots yet? Throw Clinton into the mix with NAFTA tossed in there, and you start to see the lack of separation of the parties. They all used the smokescreen of relatively novel social issues to blindside the american public. Do you honestly think our country is going to hell if gay's have rights? Or if women get abortions? The whole time behind the scenes the money men on wall street were pulling the strings, making themselves obscenely wealthy with out actually producing anything towards our gross national product. We go into a system where we produce less and borrow more to make the ones at the top more money, and with that came more power. Then to cover our debt's we simply print more money, since it is based on nothing. The dollar is the world reserve note, we can make as many as we want and they are just accepted. If you look at other developed countries, say Germany, in order for them to buy oil, they don't use the Deutsche mark, first they have to convert those into dollars, then use dollars to buy oil. In that way they cannot spend more then they produce, same with other countries, and this is part of how Russia was ran bankrupt in the 80's. Other countries are losing faith in the dollar, and talking about switching to the Yen or yeuon(sp? currency of China), meaning we will no longer be number one, in fact it will collapse our economy completely. We operate almost completely on loans, what happens if our creditors no longer accept the dollars we use to pay our debts? Why would anyone want to do this, first of all, America is not well liked in the world, we have used our advantage since WW2 to manipulate governments and economies all over the globe. Somewhere along the line we developed a delusion that the rest of the world should be a democracy, when in fact that was only a ploy to try and get cheap (slave) labor out of undeveloped countries. Take a look at the depression of the 30's, it was caused by robber barons in industry (not going to explain how, look it up if you want) during that time do you think that the extremely wealthy ever stood in a bread line? Sure they lost a few bucks, but at the end of it all they still had their wealth. The exact same thing is happening today, if you look at the trends in the stock market between 1936-1942, and 2005-2011 the graphs line up almost to the percentile. Now you may be asking why the hell would anyone in America want to engineer the collapse of our own economy? Because they will not lose anything. Take a look into the psychology of megalomania. Why would the Romans want to take over the world? Why would Hitler want to take over the world? The thing is, we have a pack of megalomaniacs running things behind the scenes. We breed them like bunnies in this country, after generations of being wealthy they have become drunk with power. There is only so many multi million dollar mansions, yachts, ect they can buy before they are no longer satisfied, so they play a new game. I really could go on and on and on, but I won't. Do I think that common people are aware of all this, or even see the connections I do? No not at all, the only thing people know is that shit is fucked up, and who is to blame. As far as I'm concerned these protests are about 20 years late, and it's more than an uphill battle. It puts a hairline sliver of my faith back in humanity to see people actually start to wake up and realize how fucked up humanity is. Things have been this way through out recorded human history, the big difference is we now have the ability to communicate openly with anyone, anywhere. I have people from all over the world on my IM lists that I chat with, this gives me an insight into what it is really like to be in those places. __________________

12-15-2011, 11:30 AM	#20 (permalink)
HoboMaster Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sandpoint / Moscow, ID Posts: 2,301	Really I see this whole thing as an ideological battle between those who want the ability to obtain everything and those who think that ability should not exist. What you are starting to see globally is an extremely important and remarkable change in ideals, morals and values. This is what we need, because the future will not support capitalistic values. We will have to rediscover what made us happy for thousands of years in the abscess of material excess and over-complicated societies. Things like the importance of family, community, personal relationships and symbiotic connections to nature will have to take precedence. Slowly people are realizing that for all of the natural and social destruction their mansions and yacht's have caused, neither things have made them truly happy. We will have to start thinking in terms of "we" instead of "me", if only for the utilitarian concept of survival. In my opinion the sooner the shit hits the fan, the sooner we can start fixing global society. People are blissfully ignorant until crisis shows up on their front doorstop and hands them a due date. __________________ PowderHound and TreeNinja

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12-14-2011, 12:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
AcroPhile Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Denver Posts: 622	Thinking that OWS is about getting free hand-outs or that the only thing keeping people from being apart of the 1% is a lack of work ethic shows a complete misunderstanding of what this movement is all about.

12-14-2011, 01:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
snowjeeper Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: WI Posts: 1,922	Lol Idaho you don't know shit.

12-14-2011, 08:02 PM	#17 (permalink)
dreampow Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Kyoto Japan Posts: 1,055	Good to hear its still strong in the US, there is an occupy movement in Leeds which is my home town in the UK. Its spreading nicely. Once more this is exactly the opposite of the mainstream media propaganda, which would have us believe its all but over. While the mainstream media would have us believe these people are leeches looking for free handouts thats clearly misinformation and only applies to a small few. This is about the 99% percent demanding a level playing field. A fair system. Thats all. Its inherently unfair at the moment. Those who say CEOs and people in the 1% deserve it know very little about the world of the 1%s. You might know people in the higher brackets of wealth, but thats far from the real top of the pyramid. I assure you form first hand experience the people at the top exploiting the rest know nothing of hard work. Its about your family and connections what "group" you belong to. Yes they will wheel out the few people who made it big with hard work and say "look its fair, they made it". The reality is that the real wealth, property, and power is held by people who have been handing it down to friends and relatives for generations. I believe we are at a crossroads and fundamental change is coming. Why can't we have a system of capitalism that allows for real taxation of those making the most? Why can't we have real democracy? Why can't we have a system that supports those who need help instead of bailing out banks who intentionally created the problem in the first place? Saying "its always been corrupt and always will be" is just giving up. Thats exactly the feeling that TV and mass media is working to create. A sense that its hopeless and you have no power to change anything. May as well bend over and drop your pants. It can change and it will. If you observe nature thats what it shows us. Imbalance cannot exist for long. Sooner or later the balance must be restored.