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Old 10-09-2012, 12:49 AM   #281 (permalink)
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:11 AM   #282 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
While I do not share your faith or your position on Geology Calvary Cougar, I have to say that I am impressed with your presentation and candor. It is been polite, respectful and courteous. You present your arguments well and back them up withdocumentatiom and research that you find credible. Even though I do not agree with said research or the conclusions, I have gained a lot of respect for you. You seem to be one of the few true Christians who seem to actually act "Christ like" and if more religious people in the world took your example, our history would not be as bloody as it is. You share your faith without forcing it on people. Perhaps this does indeed show a fundamental difference between religions. I can't imagine this level of openness and acceptance of critical examination of faith in an Islamic country. I am still steadfastly opposed to organized religion in all forms but you have impressed me....
Wow...thank you!

I knew I said I was done replying but...
I really do appreciate this comment and those who have had civil discussions.

I just wanted to address those who think Christians must follow their beliefs blindly.

"When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said."
Acts 17:1-3

We can see that Paul used his brain to prove Jesus was who he said he was.
Peter also said in 1 Peter 3:15, one of my favorite verses,

"But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."
1 Peter 3:15-16
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:04 AM   #283 (permalink)
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Well from what I can tell, it seems like he was someone we should all try to be more like.
Ah now this raises a very interesting point (or several). And I won't argue with your statement I see I lot of wisdom there too - particularly in the picture painted from the sources from outside the church edited bible. His message seemed (to me) to be help out each other rather than worship god and expect him to take care of everything.

I don't need you to answer these but I'd like everyone to consider them in their own mind.
  • Does that mean it's a requirement to believe in god to recognise and follow the good examples you see?
  • Do the examples you see as being good in anyway mean there must be a god or the wisdom must have come from that god?
  • What makes you know that the examples you see in Jesus are good and worth emulating? (Is it because the bible told you, or is it because you already have a built in sense of right and wrong and that allows you to recognise what you do and don't agree with?)
  • If you didn't know about jesus, do you think your morals would be vastly different?
  • Who are the other people you respect and emulate. Do you do so because a book or an organisation told you to?
  • For all the good examples you see are there parts of the bible where you think the supposed word of god is actually a bit flaky and he could have easily given much better advice?

Last edited by Slush Puppie; 10-09-2012 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:18 AM   #284 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Unfortunately this type of logic (and I know this is the point you are making) is somehow inexplicably believed by some people.

I guess a lie is sometimes easy to believe if you really want it to be true.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:23 AM   #285 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ShredLife View Post
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one
Right on

In 2000 years time, I sincerely hope it's this that people read in their book of wisdom and follow. I just hope that they don't need to decide in a couple of hundred years that Lennon was the son of god in order to do so.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:22 AM   #286 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=CalvaryCougar;524585]Didn't want to leave off without answering you questions.



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This is exactly right. The combo of so many questions to answer, and I only wanted to answer things that I am more familiar with, it would be unfair for me to answer topics I have no idea about. Thats why for most debate questions I have given links to those who are more knowledgeable and creditable than me.
I more hope that you spend some time learning about them than answering them if I'm honest.



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Im not familiar with dendrology so I cannot answer questions in that regard but I will probably look it up and read about it in the next couple days.
Wiki Dendrochronology will only take a few minutes to read.

Quote:
And actually I dont see the complete absence for a global flood. I see the exact opposite. I posted two links a while ago that you may have missed.

The World

Geologic Evidences for the Genesis Flood - Answers in Genesis
A slightly more balanced view can be found on wikipedia Flood geology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Flood geology contradicts the scientific consensus in geology and paleontology, chemistry, biology, geophysics and stratigraphy,[4][5][6][7][8][9] and the scientific community considers it to be pseudoscience.[10][11]"

You may see this (I sometime see faces in clouds!) but the evidence is overwhelmingly against it. Unfortunately the examples you posted contain a just a handful of arguments that either do zero to prove the earth's age and which all have much more plausible explanations and or no real significance.

Quote:
The way fossils are formed can be argued for a flood with rapid burial being apparent in some cases. You must not look at the flood as just rain that filled the earth.
As posted before I personally don't particularly doubt a catastrophic flood of some kind in the earths history.

The story of noah in the bible is derived from the earlier Babylonian myth of Gilgamesh. The flood myth itself is a fairly global one. The latter doesn't make it automatically true but i'm inclined to think there is some basis in truth. As posted previously, far from adding weight to the biblical version of events it significantly erodes the authenticity of any single version.

And perhaps you might recognise the fallibility and problems of the other versions, if not your own?

However it could not have covered the earths surface entirely and is likely to be much older. There are many hypothesis for example Zanclean flood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and we may never know. Do some research if you want to form your own opinion on this.

What we do know, is that the earth categorically was not covered water 6000 years ago this can be verified in many different ways. Such as evidence that there were trees growing unaffected by such a flood at any point you can name in the last 11,000 years.

I'm also curious as to what all noah's animals would have eaten had they returned to a land devoid of plant life if that were true. And how the ones sensitive to climate or with specialised habitat requirements survived and returned to their homes across the planet. (A point raised by Dawkins in an earlier video). Assuming that the ark was indeed large enough to hold all 8.7 million know species (and the estimated additional 80% more we have yet to discover) in the first place. The beetle room alone must have been something with all 400,000 different species, I bet they took a long time to round up if nothing else

Quote:
Check out these fossils that suppose rapid burial Caption from Answers in Genesis
"Figure 12—Many fish were buried alive and fossilized quickly, such as this fish “caught in the act” of eating its last meal. Photo courtesy of Dr. Andrew Snelling."


Caption from Answers in Genesis
"Figure 13—This female ichthyosaur, a marine reptile, was found fossilized at the moment of giving birth to her baby. Photo courtesy of Dr. Andrew Snelling."
Ok what does this actually tell us? Only that these creatures died just before or as a result of being covered in sediment. Does it tell us anything about the circumstances of the time? No. What could explain it? Well there is no reason to suppose these creatures didn't die as a result of the actives with which they are engaged. However in themselves they are in no way proof of a global flood, or even a likely indication. They tell us something but not everything and certainly not enough to base a judgement on. You have to look far and wide for that. Thus far credible support had not been produced, yet an overwhelming amount contradicting it has.

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But like I said I'm probably done, because I see this going on for a while, if you still would like to chat please pm me.
Thanks for you're offer but I don't wish to pursue this over pm from my side, I don't feel any need to do so. I will however continue to challenge any assertions and information you choose to continue posting. Along with do my best to answer any questions you have (either here or on pm if you would prefer).

Last edited by Slush Puppie; 10-09-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:19 AM   #287 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by snowklinger View Post
Well from what I can tell, it seems like he was someone we should all try to be more like.
Oh, absolutely. Also Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King, etc etc. Funny how good people are good people regardless of religion, and bad people the same.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:27 AM   #288 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Slush Puppie View Post
The beetle room alone must have been something with all 400,000 different species, I bet they took a long time to round up if nothing else
I'd like to see Noah trying to herd all those species of cats! Like Bill Cosby says, "this is one heck of a job for a man 600 years old!"
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:06 PM   #289 (permalink)
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Well put x2
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:21 PM   #290 (permalink)
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Heaven may be real afterall...

Proof of Heaven: A Doctor's Experience With the Afterlife

Plus credibility can only be enhanced with wearing a bowtie like that.

Quote:
But in essence, it will show the universe as evolving, multi-dimensional, and known down to its every last atom by a God who cares for us even more deeply and fiercely than any parent ever loved their child.
I like this statement, if the bible or any other religious text only contained these words I would buy into it because that's all I would really like a God to be.
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