KIRKRIDER

A son of a Roman

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seant46

I think those are 2 really good questions when someones thinking about religion personally.

Yup.


I guess perception is reality.

making turns

This conversation is interesting to me as I am a Christian minister. I have read much of this thread and I would agree with Snowolf's positive assessment. Conversations about religious faith "go to hell" quickly on the internet, which is why I usually don't engage in them. The respectful exchanges here, however, have encouraged me to share a couple of thoughts.

Too often, Christians approach science with suspicion and fear. This false dichotomy between faith and science is best expressed in the "Creationism/Evolution" debate. The "Creationism/Evolution" debate usually leads one to conclude that it's an either/or proposition. It's either God created in exactly the manner described in Genesis 1:1-2:3 (the first creation story) or it's evolution and God doesn't exist.

The interesting thing is, even Genesis isn't that simple. In Genesis 2:4 there is another account of creation. If you read Genesis 1:1-2:3 and then read Genesis 2:4-24 you will find there are two different accounts of creation. The order of creation in each account is different, and the most substantial difference is that the stories (or poems, that's what they really are) use different names for God. The first creation story uses the more generic "Elohim," and the second account uses the more personal "Yahweh." So the point is (sorry for the lengthy diatribe) . . . that the ancient Hebrews realized that creation was such a magnanimous event that just one creation poem couldn't do it justice.

Anyways, I should probably stop here, as I could ramble on about this stuff for far too long (and if someone has already pointed out the two creation stories I apologize for not having read the entire thread). My point is . . . you don't have to choose between Faith and Science. There is plenty of room for mystery in religious faith and the more we discover about the scientific world the more we realize that mystery is an essential aspect of being.

I'll leave you with a favorite quote from Anne Lamott . . . "The opposite of faith is not doubt, the opposite of faith is certainty."

Peace,
Jeff

Sassicaia

WOW!

“That’s the reason, as your congressman, I hold the holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I’ll continue to do that,”

Arent politics and religion supposed to be separate? Wonder what would happen if he was muslin and said the same thing about the quran.

Scary and primitive all at the same time. If my elected official made a comment like that id send a pretty nasty email to him.

BTW this guy also say "6 days as we know it" not each day lasting a thousand years like many other believers...so which is it?

Congressman draws fire for calling evolution, Big Bang

Slush Puppie

On the other hand, the map is not the territory

Welcome!

I think that the suspicion and fear is because people recognise on some level that a belief in and true understanding of the science leaves little room for god for most people. And that's a shame (to be afraid). It's an incredibly difficult thing to do to change our most deeply held beliefs. People after all will die for their most fundament beliefs. I need not cite examples of this. And no one can (or should) tell you what to believe. But I would encourage everyone to base whatever their beliefs are on the widest and riches sources of information available to them. And to not be afraid to question all of it!


"...when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong."
Richard Dawkins


That's an interesting conclusion (i have no particular argument with it) although a few possible explanations come to my mind. Who's to say I guess?

Nah, you came to the right place! Get involved

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.
Richard Dawkins"
That's a pro or a con to most people depending on which side of the divide they sit. I personally prefer to try and understand. YMMV

I hope i'm not laying the Dawkins quotes too thickly Just often they are insightful and thought provoking.

This is certainly interesting. Of course the title is slightly over sensational, it's in no way whatsoever proof of heaven. At least none other than can exist in anyone's mind at any time. But it's interesting never the less and i'd like to to know more.

poutanen

Snowfolf you and I have found common ground (well apart from all the other common ground lol)...

There should be no link between the state and religion. The various religions are a set of laws/practices/teachings meant to instill a culture on a group of people. Since the public doesn't agree on a single religion, no religion should form any part of public policy.

I won't state my religious beliefs here (because you'd probably all laugh! lol) but I will say the words my dad said to me when I was younger...

"God is Santa Clause for adults"

ShredLife

not sure why this thread got moved but that seemed to kill it so fucking THANKS whoever did that...

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get the hell off my lawn.

snowklinger

You mean like away from so much hate and vitriol?

Thanks for bringing it back on course.

The opening of the vid has me tho. Atheists knowing more about religion - unsuprising really...

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is it late october yet?

ShredLife

well, its a thread that got over 5,000 views in just over a week and its 15+ pages long, so it looks like a discussion that people are willing to have...

no one is forcing you to participate. there will be no free volcom swag thrown out to the crowd here...

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get the hell off my lawn.

snowklinger

hehe

I don't mind playing, I enjoy the middle of the discussion in reality, and I'm more educated than most on the topic.

The video you posted is kind of lazy reporting, but its not fair to nullify it for that sake, most of the shit you see and read these days is not excellent.

here's my issues with it tho:

1. The first question about Maiomodes...that was pretty obscure, which makes me a bit skeptical as to the contents of the survey that they are talking about - not that I challenge the conclusions.

2. Some really easy targets here:
a. as a population we are notoriously uneducated, especially about the rest of the world, compared to the rest of the world
b. "we are a nation of believers" quoted from the vid.

if a is true, and b is true, therefore we have a nation of stupid believers.

This is not really clever, nor is it the correct way to blend philosophy and logic, it does however, seem to be the seed of this report.

I'd take a 32 or Electric sticker...!

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is it late october yet?