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post #81 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:08 PM
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I have a serious, non-dick question for those who don't believe in a higher power, basically regarding my questions from a few posts up.

Do you guys ever look around at the complexities of everything around us, from the way the universe works, to our perfect distance from the sun for life to exist, to the gravitational pull of the moon which allows the tides to support that ecosystem, so on and so forth, down to the complexities of how living organisms work and wonder: "Man, how the fuck did all this shit just happen to work out?". I mean, it seems that even the most fragile changes or shifts in about anything cause problems that are beyond human control. I know there's lots of scientific theories out there to try and explain the coincidences, but do you guys ever think, "Holy fuck?"
Yes small shifts can have catastrophic results. And that turns out to be a good thing in creating diversity.

If you think it's all impossibly improbable, consider that not a single one of your own ancestors from the very first single celled creature right throughout to your own parents was unlucky enough to get killed, too slow to be eaten, too ugly to find a mate before they reproduced. They all survived long enough to reproduce. How many 1000's or 1,000,000's of them have there been? Petty improbable no? Yet here you are.

How many just like them, or very slightly less well suited to their environment didn't make it? What did all of them do to make it? Enough and that's the important thing. It's almost beyond imagination right? Evolution seems just as (even more!) improbable if you think about it in one way, but once you think about it in the right terms it's just a likely and obvious as the fact that you exist now.

Even knowing that the only part that's still really hard for us to grasp is the sheer scale of time and numbers needed.

(And that's because at no point during evolution has being able to comprehend that sort of scale been an advantage to surviving or not. If it did, Stephen Hawking would probably seem like a dunce to most of us )

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post #82 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:13 PM
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Yes small shifts can have catastrophic results. And that turns out to be a good thing in creating diversity.

If you think it's all impossibly improbable, consider that not a single one of your own ancestors from the very first single celled creature was unlucky enough to get killed, too slow to be eaten, too ugly to find a mate before they reproduced. They all survived long enough to reproduce. How many 1000's or 1,000,000's of them have there been? Petty improbably no? Yet here you are. It's almost beyond imagination right? Evolution seems just as (more) improbable if you think about it in one way, but once you think about it in the right terms it's just a likely and obvious as the fact that you exist now.
nothing you have said differs from my beliefs, except I believe a higher power had a hand in guiding those improbable events.
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post #83 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:19 PM
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Logic is becoming really twisted. This post needs to be moved to a different section now...
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post #84 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:25 PM
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and don't misunderstand my question about complexities in the universe and the ecosystems as some sort of explanation as to why there's a higher power. I didn't mean that at all...
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post #85 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:25 PM
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um...because it's the topic of this discussion?
Hardly. Your assertion is that science is invalid because it didn't create anything. Why does it needed to have created something??
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post #86 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:30 PM
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and don't misunderstand my question about complexities in the universe and the ecosystems as some sort of explanation as to why there's a higher power. I didn't mean that at all...
No I didn't take it like that, I took it that you were accepting it but find it mind-blowing all the same. Apologies if I got that wrong, it was hoping I could assist with that if true.
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post #87 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:30 PM
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i don't think he meant that. I think he was just saying that 'science', per se, isn't what actually put us all on this earth. Science is just the study of however we got here and how the 'here' came about as well.
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post #88 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:32 PM
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No I didn't take it like that, I took it that you were accepting it but find it mind-blowing all the same. Apologies if I got that wrong, it was hoping I could assist with that if true.
no worries.

and i do find it mind-blowing.

mindblowing-ly awesome!

Whether it came from a deity or not is irrelevant to my question. I basically wanted to know if anyone else just stands around and goes, Holy fuck this is awesome. This is some complicated shit, that regardless of the how, is pretty fucking cool! I don't know if I really conveyed that well in my original question, so apologies.

It's the engineering nerd in me coming out
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post #89 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:34 PM
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i don't think he meant that. I think he was just saying that 'science', per se, isn't what actually put us all on this earth. Science is just the study of however we got here and how the 'here' came about as well.
Exactly.

I didn't say nor do I believe science is invalid. That's crazy talk.

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post #90 of 351 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 04:36 PM
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That's crazy talk.
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