Gun Control Debate thread

[linvillegorge]

Originally Posted by MarshallV82

If you honestly believe the solution to what happened today is more gun, you are pants-on-head retarded. If you believe taking them away entirely is the solution you are too. The real problem lies in the fact that people can be noticed as "odd", "strange", or worse , and nobody can do anything about it. You don't fix something by going after the results, you fix it by going after the causes.


Just yesterday a man in China slashed 22 children and an adult outside a elementary school with a knife. shit that like happens all over the world, quite often.

This. My wife and I were talking about that this evening. Everyone wants to talk about the "warning signs" etc. after something like this happens, but the bottom line is that mental illness isn't taken seriously in this country. It's something to be ashamed of, to be whispered about, and to be hidden away. Our mental health system is fucking awful. The way we approach it is fucking broken and just throwing drugs down people's throats isn't a legit answer. I maintain that we have a societal problem much more than we have a gun problem.

[Howlingsonnets]

Originally Posted by Capita2JZGTE

Probably because this is America "Land of the free". Oh and please show me where in the second that it mentions anything about single shot muskets... The second amendment was written so that civilians could protect themselves from the government. It put no limits on the "types" of weapons. No I don't think people should be able to run around with fully automatic weapons. But what's the point of disarming a society so that the only ones with weapons are the criminals? This shooting proves that banning guns doesn't work. None of the faculty were allowed to carry guns, and so the killer had free reign on whoever he wanted until the police arrived. Please tell me what waiting for the police did. In case that is a hard question to answer, it left more than 2 dozen innocent people defenseless, and guess what? The killer KNEW this.

Do you remember when that wacko shot up that military base Fort Hood in Texas?
Do you know why he was able to kill so many people?
Because the soldiers on that base weren't allowed to carry their issued rifles. Only the MP's. Do you think he would have killed 13 people and wounded 29 others if those other soldiers were allowed to carry weapons?

I was being sarcastic when i said muskets bc back then there were no assault rifles....in 1791 they werent talking about assault weapons...

And i never said i was AGAINST the 2nd amendment...but im about to honestly throw it out the window when people like its ok to be able to carry a gun everywhere from the grocery store to a school of learning...the NRA and gun toting crazies have always had a knack for holding their "this our right" demonstration the day of or following major events like this and its disheartening....its sick actually

And if everyone carried a gun everywhere they go bc they are afraid something or someone will do something like this...it wouldnt be a good thing....it would be an accident waiting to happen...people on edge ALL THE TIME ready to fire is not something i wanna be around....

I really cannot comment on anymore you said bc your missing the point of my post and explaining it would take too much energy bc it seems ur mind is made up and on the defense....

I hear gun shots and sirens and ambulances everyday...i grew up that way being from the philly neighborhood of kensington.....we have senseless violence everyday...pull up our murder numbers and it rises every year w this year most likely hitting almost 400....

Guns need regulation...and this time the 5-10yr olds are the ones that had to pay the price to hopefully put this into our main perspective as a country....

There is just no need to have multiple firearms let alone assault weapons as citizens....that simple....

[Edge]

Originally Posted by Snowolf

Now, unlike the utility uses for a handgun like I mentioned, I cannot come up with a valid, logical use for these Ar-15`s AK-47`s and other semiautomatic high magazine capacity weapons. They are not effective hunting weapons, unlike a handgun they are not ideal home defense weapons. The "because I want one and its my right" argument is just too weak in light of recent events. It is time to get these things off of our streets, period.

Quoted for truth. This is it.

[Howlingsonnets]

Originally Posted by Edge

Quoted for truth. This is it.

Truth...well put

[StreetDoc]

Originally Posted by Snowolf

You are in error here. A hand gun has a place and is a tool just like a rifle is. I backpack in the wilderness in Grizzly Bear habitat. I carry a Ruger Super Black Hawk .44 Magnum revolver. In 1983 while hiking in the Bob Marshal Wilderness of Montana I and a friend were attacked by a Grizzly. I fired 3 shots and killed the bear. Had I not had that hand gun, I and my friend would very likely have been killed. This bear had been tagged and when we reported the incident to the Montana Fish and Game, their records showed that this was a transplanted park bear from Glacier who had shown aggressive behavior towards humans.

So, you will never ever in a million years convince me that handgun does not have a legitimate place in the back country as a tool for personal protection. Could a hunting rifle done the same or even better job? in this case yes it could have but there are cases where it would not. In a tent attack at night for example. In another case in Alaska, a Grizzly attacked a family in a tent. One family member with a handgun in the tent mortally wounded the bear and while it did not die immediately, it stopped the attack and saved the life of the family. In the confines of the tent, a rifle could not be wielded effectively.

Another very legitimate case for handguns can be made in the realm of personal protection from criminals. Do you even have any clue how many women have used a small handgun in a purse to protect themselves from rape, assault and murder? Its actually quite a lot. Cops cannot always be at your side or respond fast enough to prevent an attack. Citizens should have the means to protect themselves and a handgun is an appropriate tool for this.


Now having said that, I am not an NRA type gun nut and while yes I do own guns and generally support a person`s ability to own a firearm including a handgun, I also think that gun lobby has totally driven the crazy train off of the fucking track!

I do not support all out gun bans and confiscation but I am also of the opinion that gun ownership needs to be a privilege not an unquestioned right. This fruitcake was obviously mental yet he legally purchased these weapons. That is bullshit and it is time to implement some serious gun control regulation in this country.

Now, unlike the utility uses for a handgun like I mentioned, I cannot come up with a valid, logical use for these Ar-15`s AK-47`s and other semiautomatic high magazine capacity weapons. They are not effective hunting weapons, unlike a handgun they are not ideal home defense weapons. The "because I want one and its my right" argument is just too weak in light of recent events. It is time to get these things off of our streets, period.

Now for those who cite crime rates in places like Chicago as proof that gun control does not work, consider this. Acquiring a gun 50 miles away in a neighboring state or even county is easy and negates the effectiveness of a gun restriction like this. A nut job can easily acquire a gun this way. A national gun restriction makes acquiring a prohibited firearm a whole hell of lot harder to acquire and this is going to have an impact on these types of crimes. The average nutjob like this piece of shit is not nearly as likely to acquire a gun like this from an international black market but if all he has to do is drive to another county, it becomes pointless. The effectiveness of any gun regulation must be national.

So, while I do think there is a legitimate utility purpose (including self defense from criminals) for gun ownership including handguns, I think we need to seriously regulate that privilege better. There is no reason on earth this freak should have been allowed to poses a firearm based on his know personality disorders. We do not need 50 round clips for any gun and I could argue that a 15 round magazine is plenty adequate for any legitimate use of a firearm.

As a gun owner myself, I accept and welcome sensible gun regulation and even from a Constitutional standpoint I believe the government has the right to regulate guns. The first part of the amended reads "A well regulate militia.." It`s pretty clear in my book that the second amendment itself has language that allows the government to regulate firearms.

And I am sorry but the people who think gun ownership keeps the government from being tyrannical is in my opinion delusional. One company of US special forces can wipe out every so called militia with ease. What is Barney Buttfuck in Alabama going to do with his AR-15 against 1 Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt. Keep the government from becoming tyrannical? Really? Give me a fucking break!

I typed a long response and suddenly I wasn't logged in and it all got deleted. I'll try again...


You're correct about Chicago. You can buy a gun the next county over and sign a promisary note not to bring it to Chicago. Of course the only people that obey this are the law abiding citizens. A national gun ban goes against what this country was founded on. What this country needs is accountability. Everyone plays the blame game. Crazy is crazy and needs to be identified. Shootings like this never happen in Chicago because people are more prepared and expect violence. Think about the airliner that crashed on 9/11. They hijacked that plane with BOX CUTTERS because people weren't prepared. Do you think that would be allowed today? If someone pulled a box cutter on a plane tomorrow do you think he would be beaten into a bloody pulp or do you think the same result as 9/11 would occur? What is the difference? People would be prepared.

[StreetDoc]

Originally Posted by Howlingsonnets

And if everyone carried a gun everywhere they go bc they are afraid something or someone will do something like this...it wouldnt be a good thing....it would be an accident waiting to happen...people on edge ALL THE TIME ready to fire is not something i wanna be around....

You've obviously never lived in an armed society. In Colorado a lot of people have guns. You wouldn't know it though. Your statement is a complete falicy.

[readimag]

^ agreed, also the US is not the place you are most likely to die from guns Jamaica and Puerto Rico have a higher rate of murders with guns. Look at what the IRA did for a long time with England even with all the gun control. If people what to get a gun and do something it will happen, all you can do is prepare.

[slyder]

Originally Posted by Howlingsonnets

And if everyone carried a gun everywhere they go bc they are afraid something or someone will do something like this...it wouldnt be a good thing....it would be an accident waiting to happen...people on edge ALL THE TIME ready to fire is not something i wanna be around....

I really cannot comment on anymore you said bc your missing the point of my post and explaining it would take too much energy bc it seems ur mind is made up and on the defense....

I hear gun shots and sirens and ambulances everyday...i grew up that way being from the philly neighborhood of kensington.....we have senseless violence everyday...pull up our murder numbers and it rises every year w this year most likely hitting almost 400....

Why would this not be a good thing?? Many people carry and nothing ever happens to them or that they need to use it.
Where are the articles of a person carrying a gun and stopping and shooting up a drug house. Your so worried about average citizens how about all the drug dealers, armed robberies, rapes, car jacking done with handguns. We have been desensitized to these figures because they are every day events all over our country. Many more crimes of these types happen daily without being on the news as it is common place now. These are criminals with guns!!!
This recent tragedy is becoming less rare and more publicized and truly an issue, not sure how it gets addressed but the everyday crime with a gun by criminals far out weighs average Americans that own handguns or even assault type weapons.

There is no scientific proof or statistical data that is accredited that says an armed society of law bidding citizens increases crime or random acts of violence. I haven't even found data stating that it has reduced crimes significantly or enough to mention other than in passing or as a talking point.

With that said and your point that your own upbringing in Philly saw major violence and a murder rate on the rise to this date and one of the highest in the country. You feel you would not be safer with a firearm in your pocession???

Not flaming simply asking, have you shot a handgun before and do would you feel comfortable owning one?? Many people just are afraid of them not ever having held, shot, or been familiarized with them, PROPERLY of course.

[Howlingsonnets]

Originally Posted by StreetDoc

You've obviously never lived in an armed society. In Colorado a lot of people have guns. You wouldn't know it though. Your statement is a complete falicy.

I dnt live in an armed society? Falicy? Are you kidding me? Colorado has guns...ok? and is not the only state that has them. I live in Philly and guns are EVERYWHERE legally and illegally...i live in a country of guns...i have family friends and neighbors who have guns...they are hunters, officers, military, and collectors...but i guess that doesnt count either and i must have no idea about guns...

Point your missing let alone an opinion of mine i stated....is that not everyone is responsible/mentally healthy to have the right to own guns...its about gun safety...not controlling....

Im not hear to argue...and when people get so defensive and spew nonsense wo a viable statement to concur w mine and others it makes me wonder...

No i do not agree that everywhere a gun should be permitted not now especially...

some people get on edge...they arent the same as they were when they got a permit to carry...people change for better or worse...some people dont knw how to handle emotions or situations...people resort to violence before solutions...its the mindset of the individual carrying

[Howlingsonnets]

Originally Posted by slyder

Why would this not be a good thing?? Many people carry and nothing ever happens to them or that they need to use it.
Where are the articles of a person carrying a gun and stopping and shooting up a drug house.

There is no scientific proof or statistical data that is accredited that says an armed society of law bidding citizens increases crime or random acts of violence. I haven't even found data stating that it has reduced crimes significantly or enough to mention other than in passing or as a talking point.

With that said and your point that your own upbringing in Philly saw major violence and a murder rate on the rise to this date and one of the highest in the country. You feel you would not be safer with a firearm in your pocession???

Not flaming simply asking, have you shot a handgun before and do would you feel comfortable owning one?? Many people just are afraid of them not ever having held, shot, or been familiarized with them, PROPERLY of course.

to answer ur question i have shot guns at the range...for safety i wanted to learn and was planning on getting a permit....ive done fine the last 27yrs wo one..i carry a switch instead....just bc of this incident doesnt make me run out get a permit and buy a .38.....

And know everything i said was opinion and never stated as fact about violence increasing if everyone carried BUT one wonders if its this high now what if everyone did carry? How much more of an increase? No facts stated just opinion...

And yea i know ur not flaming hahha i can tell by how you wrote....i take no offense to peoples opinions or debates its when they make no sense makes me wanna disengage and go off to another thread about bindings and helmets....