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Old 11-22-2010, 12:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I once heard of the agnostic dislexic insomniac that spent the whole night laying awake trying to determine the true meaning of DOG!
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mpdsnowman View Post
*to have belief would imply faith.... in fact an atheist cannot have any belief.....
an arguement exists, that the atheist has an 'assumption' which is equally as whimsical as that of any religious follower.

one cannot 'prove' the non-existance of something purely due to a lack of evidence to support its existance. afterall, germs existed long before humankind had the means to identify them as such.

of course this example benefits from hindsight and until such can be applied to a god-like creator, we indulge in probability. this probability is what fuels atheistic reason, but still requires a few percentage points of 'belief'.

these few percentage points are admitted to by scientists and are then exploited by religious folk. but because god is a construct of humankind's imagination, it can be said that god's discovery lies in a region beyond our comprehension and thus is guaranteed never to be conclusively dismissed.

hence the need for faith... theistic faith in something unseen, atheistic faith that something will never be seen even though the search for it is not yet exhaustive.

aka simple headfark.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ran across this "Definition of Atheism" and found it pretty interesting.

The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.
That definition is ignorant and stupid, to say the least. Study the meaning of the Greek word. try to post something that makes more sense.

Oh...I never discuss faith. it's absolutely pointless.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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an arguement exists, that the atheist has an 'assumption' which is equally as whimsical as that of any religious follower.
There's a difference between a working theory or a conditional belief and absolute faith. With most xians (and I think ClubMyke would agree with this statement) there is no way even in principle to convince them through argument or evidence that god does not exist. On the other hand, it is possible in principle with an atheist or a scientist to show them that they are wrong and have them accept it.

Now I'm not saying there won't be individuals who will buck this trend on both sides, but the definition of spiritual faith is that it is supposed to be unshakable, and the definition of scientific theory is that it is supposed to be contingent and able to be tossed aside the moment it ceases to do the job.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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to me, atheism itself feels too much like a religion. Agnosticism is the most sensible viewpoint for me. I can't really say what created the universe and whats out there . hardcore Atheists to me are just as bad as fundamental religious zealots. They are blind ideologues that are more alike then they'll ever care to admit.
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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There's a difference between a working theory or a conditional belief and absolute faith.
I think if atheists were indulging a 'working theory', then they would be of the agnostic strain. Atheists (from my understanding of the term) have already settled a conclusion based upon evidence already considered.

they therefore exercise faith in the probability that future evidence will never come about, which would necessitate a change to their determination.

i can see how atheistic individuals perhaps have a capacity to eat humble pie and admit to being wrong, more so than god botherers... but ego can be a powerful thing and so what sort of evidence of god's existance would be strong enough, not to be denied?

it would be interesting to see i think.
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
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they therefore exercise faith in the probability that future evidence will never come about, which would necessitate a change to their determination.
Between your comment and shocktroop's comment, I'd have to agree, especially with up-against-the-peg atheists like Dawkins. We're probably getting into subtle word definitions here, but I tend to think of agnostics as people who are leaning towards existance of a deity or universal force of some kind, and atheists as people who are not. Really though, agnostics and atheists are more like each other than they are like theists, in that neither is using a purportedly divine handout to bolster their prejudices.
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Atheism is not a belief system. There are belief systems that are atheistic and there are belief systems that are theistic. For example, Christianity is a theistic religion based of the belief of a magical cloud genie. LeVeyan Satanism is an example of an atheistic religion, based on individualism. So can a person be an atheist? Yes, if their belief system is atheistic, but you shouldn't say that atheism is your religion, just as you wouldn't say your religion is theism.

There, dead horse thoroughly beaten.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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ego can be a powerful thing and so what sort of evidence of god's existance would be strong enough, not to be denied?
In the beginning, there was ME. Everything else is hearsay.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm not sure about all this religion stuff and reading old texts and books and going into big fancy buildings with stained glass. all that stuff I don't really care for. but I know the closest I've ever felt to god is when I'm out there on the huge mountain ripping through deep pow. that much I do know. or just out in nature at all. I think that makes me a deist. but I haven't researched the topic enough to know. but apparently that's what Ben Franklin and many of the other founding fathers were.
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