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post #251 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by linvillegorge View Post
The citizenry wouldn't have to fight the U.S. military. Some of the strongest supporters of the 2cd Amendment and the Constitution in general are in the military. I firmly believe the military would turn on the government before they'd turn wholesale against the American people.
This is the part of the argument advanced by gun advocates that I just don't get: the risk/reward equation.

The 2nd amendment is intended to enable the citizenry to protect itself against invasion or, for lack of a better term, "political upheaval" Am I correct?

The risk is that the availability of guns will lead to their use for purposes not intended by the 2nd amendment: domestic violence, mass shootings, etc.

Given that the US hasn't been invaded since the war of 1812 and that the various terrorist events that have occurred weren't stopped by an armed citizenry, is the reward worth the risk?
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post #252 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 12:32 PM
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Given that the US hasn't been invaded since the war of 1812 and that the various terrorist events that have occurred weren't stopped by an armed citizenry, is the reward worth the risk?
Yes for me it is

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post #253 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 12:57 PM
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Given that the US hasn't been invaded since the war of 1812 and that the various terrorist events that have occurred weren't stopped by an armed citizenry, is the reward worth the risk?
Are you blind? Don't you think part of the reason why we haven't been attacked in such a long time has to do with the fact that everyone knows this country is armed?

To the person that said the USA has a bigger number of mass Shootings than Canada; Of course we do. Your looking at a population of 311,591,917 vs a population of 34,482,779. Not to mention a huge difference in demographics and other statistical data as well.

Our own laws are preventing people from being able to defend themselves and most likely prevent more mass shootings.

There's a reason why criminals don't go shooting up cop shops. It's because they know virtually everyone in the place is armed and WILL fight back.
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post #254 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:06 PM
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Are you blind? Don't you think part of the reason why we haven't been attacked in such a long time has to do with the fact that everyone knows this country is armed?

To the person that said the USA has a bigger number of mass Shootings than Canada; Of course we do. Your looking at a population of 311,591,917 vs a population of 34,482,779. Not to mention a huge difference in demographics and other statistical data as well.

Our own laws are preventing people from being able to defend themselves and most likely prevent more mass shootings.

There's a reason why criminals don't go shooting up cop shops. It's because they know virtually everyone in the place is armed and WILL fight back.
Agreed.

Wasn't it a Japanese general (Yamamoto??) that said something like "If America was ever invaded there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
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post #255 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:08 PM
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Are you blind? Don't you think part of the reason why we haven't been attacked in such a long time has to do with the fact that everyone knows this country is armed?
Absolutely not. The list of countries that don't have an armed citizenry that also haven't been invaded is much longer. The main reason why the US has not been invaded is its strong military. Any invading force that can get by the US military is not going to be worried by its armed citizenry, not matter how many times you watch Red Dawn
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post #256 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:12 PM
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If you look at all of these shootings there are a couple things that are a common theme:

They all occur in gun free zones

They all occur by people who are mentally ill
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post #257 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:13 PM
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Absolutely not. The list of countries that don't have an armed citizenry that also haven't been invaded is much longer. The main reason why the US has not been invaded is its strong military. Any invading force that can get by the US military is not going to be worried by its armed citizenry, not matter how many times you watch Red Dawn
disagree. An armed citizenry created our country. Plenty of quotes from opposing country's military generals talking about how bad ass we are.
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post #258 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:18 PM
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Any invading force that can get by the US military is not going to be worried by its armed citizenry, not matter how many times you watch Red Dawn
You overestimate the US military power and hugely underestimate the power of an armed citizenry.
During the revolutionary war the colonials were mere farmers with the worst weapons you could have going up against the worlds most powerful empire at the time.
Look at what the Mujahideen had done to the Soviet Union when they tried to invade! The Soviet Union was arguably the most powerful military in the world at the time, and they couldn't get past a bunch of unequipped guerrilla fighters in the Hindu Kush.
Just look at the comment above you talking about the Japanese Admiral. It's not made up.
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post #259 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:22 PM
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some great real time gun violence statistics where heavy gun regulation is in effect-

Tracking homicides in Chicago - Tracking homicides in Chicago | RedeyeChicago.com
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post #260 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:46 PM
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To the person that said the USA has a bigger number of mass Shootings than Canada; Of course we do. Your looking at a population of 311,591,917 vs a population of 34,482,779. Not to mention a huge difference in demographics and other statistical data as well.
That was me and I also pointed out that the difference was far more than 10:1 . It's a PER CAPITA difference as well as an absolute difference in numbers.

"other statistical data" doesn't cut it. That's just a brush-off. "difference in demographics" isn't an explanation, it's just a label. But it could lead to an explanation.

Again, I'm not trying to claim that the difference IS due to gun laws. I'm simply pointing out that there IS a difference, and all those who claim that the mass shootings AREN'T caused by gun ownership but don't attempt to explain what IS causing it have a credibility issue. All you're really doing right now is metaphorically hopping from foot to foot yelling "It IS NOT! It IS NOT! I'm not LISTENING! LALALALALLAAAAAAAH!"

And to forestall the inevitable "we're not obligated to explain it", no you're not. But if you don't make the attempt, the gun control lobby is going to win by default.


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