Gun Control Debate thread

[Bones]

Originally Posted by cc898

You cannot and I mean cannot ban or control guns. Its that simple.

Again with the blanket statements.

This is simply not true.

What might be true is that you can't ban guns in a manner that is acceptable to an overwhelming majority of Americans. A large portion? Yes. A simple majority? Maybe.

This is not a fact, it is a choice. The fact is that most politicians and and a lot of Americans are willing to accept 10000 deaths a year in order to not have their gun ownership choices affected.

[backstop13]

Originally Posted by Bones

This is not a fact, it is a choice. The fact is that most politicians and and a lot of Americans are willing to accept 10000 deaths a year in order to not have their gun ownership choices affected.

Over 10,000 people a year are killed due to drunk drivers as well. Why isn't there the same outrage over alcohol that there is over guns?

[Donutz]

Originally Posted by backstop13

Over 10,000 people a year are killed due to drunk drivers as well. Why isn't there the same outrage over alcohol that there is over guns?

There is. And since there isn't a powerful lobby trying to block any action, stuff's being done. Ever heard of MADD? Drunk driving laws have been mad much tougher, and the number of deaths from drinking has fallen significantly.

See how that works?

[backstop13]

Originally Posted by Donutz

There is. And since there isn't a powerful lobby trying to block any action, stuff's being done. Ever heard of MADD? Drunk driving laws have been mad much tougher, and the number of deaths from drinking has fallen significantly.

See how that works?

Honestly man, the outrage over alcohol related deaths is no where near the outrage over gun ownership. You still skirted the point though. Even with all the action MADD has taken, there are still over 10,000 deaths per year related to alcohol. The same people who call for an outright ban on guns don't call for an outright ban on alcohol. They are treated completely different.

See how that works?

[backstop13]

Originally Posted by Snowolf

Having said that, there is no need for these fucking AK-47's, AR-15's and others with high capacity, rapid reload magazines for any purpose. No, banning them won't stop someone from using a 6 shot revolver to kill but until we solve the root cause, let's try to limit the amount of damage these freaks can do. If the assault weapons ban was reinstated, I honestly believe it will reduce the frequency that these types of guns are used in crimes like this. If all it does is stop one mass shooting, or result in 10 dead instead of 30, it is worth it. Not a solution, but it is a step.

Statistics from mass murders from 1982-2012 show that assault type weapons were used 35 times, shotguns were used 19 times, revolvers 20 times, and handguns 68 times.

If you truly believe that assault weapons need to be banned, then you should really be going after handguns. Assault weapons aren't the problem. Outside of target shooting, hunting, or mass murders, they aren't practical. Semi-Automatic clip-fed handguns are more of a danger to people in my opinion than AR-15's and AK-47's. If you really want to change gun laws that would have the biggest impact on how many people die each year in the US, we should put restrictions on semi-auto handguns first. Statistically speaking, more people are killed with semi-auto handguns than with any other type of weapon.

Here is a really good article from an independent researcher regarding firearms and statistics: Doing The Math On Guns | Neon Tommy


Again, I still think the issue is more than firearms. 75% of the mass murderers in the last 30 years had a diagnosed mental health issue prior to their killing sprees. Why these people weren't kept in check by family or by more thorough background checks is beyond me.

[backstop13]

Originally Posted by Snowolf

It seems that you, like many of the NRA types are not interested in any rational dialog about the issue of addressing these mass shootings. You don`t seem to care about anything, so long as your precious gun rights are not limited in even a very minor way Seems pretty selfish to me.....

then you obviously haven't read my posts on page 29 on of the thread, where I said there needed to be stricter regulations for gun ownership. I've been pretty open-minded and rational about the situation. Quit trying to act like me pointing out one statistic regarding alcohol related deaths was some kind of NRA bullshit slogan.

The point was, that we as Americans, don't have the all or nothing attitude against alcohol that we do towards guns. You misinterpret me when you think I want all guns no matter what. You yourself have railed against the all or nothing attitude, and I was merely pointing out that we don't have that attitude towards alcohol.

[backstop13]

Originally Posted by Snowolf

Fair enough. I did read all of your posts but this one seemed like a position shift which surprised me a bit. If that`s not the case, my bad and we agree on most of the issues.

No worries, I probably should have stated it more thoroughly (but I hate posting from my iPad )

I also read your post about prostitution and I would agree that maybe that's all some of these people need. There is obviously something else going on in the states besides guns being more prevalent. I don't know if it's the mental health aspect, kids not getting laid and being anti-social, our "me-first" culture, the idea that you have to be the best at what you do and have to stop at nothing to obtain your goals without being able to accept failure, etc. I just don't know .

[PA n8]

The thing with gun control is that we need some form of it, I just don't know what kind or how. My faith that the government can figure it out and do it right does not give me comfort. What worries me about gun control is the slippery slope that it could start.

We are also forgetting one important thing... we need guns for when the zombie apocalypse happens

[cc898]

The last few pages have shown some very logical and well thought out points of view......thank you guys for that!

I also want to state, that while I do agree with most of what you all are saying, in one form or another, some of it just wont hold water until our society as a whole is willing to change. Yes, it seems to be a case where few may hold sway over the many. I personally do not own an M4, nor do I see a clear reason fo me to do so. I am not sure I can accept the idea of a total ban on M4 type weapons because its the soup de jour for some criminals. Where would that one end?

As I have said before, I have no problem with a background check, no worries. I have no problem with restrictions, but lets be serious, limiting magazine capacity simply means you carry more magazines. Have you seen anyone who is even semi efficient do a rapid reload? It takes less than 2 seconds. I am not saying it should not be done, I am saying that I do not see it as a very good fix.

Evolving into a state of not wanting to own guns is an interesting way to look at it. Makes me feel like we are being sheparded. I stand by my statement that you simply cannot control(restrict maybe) something that people really desire to have.....there is way too much $$$ in it. Legal enterprise or not. All around the world, when pepole want to get their hands on something badly enough they seem to find a way to make it happen. Human nature I guess.

[StreetDoc]