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post #331 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 01:40 PM
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All that said. it would eliminate those who have longer term issues, a history of violence, violent criminal record, etc.



You're already restricted in what you can buy, carry and transport.




That's the point, it certainly appears to be the exact opposite. It hasn't completely eliminated the black market in other countries, but it has made it much harder. Hard enough that the rate at which guns are used in crimes is significantly less than in the US. Can you buy an illegal gun in Canada, Japan, England? Yes. Is it easy? NO. What's easier? Go to the US, buy a gun and smuggle it back. Not too many drunk ex's and wannabe gangbangers do it.
Haven't we already proven that the US is vastly different from Canada? and not just in gun laws but demographics, population, and values.
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post #332 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 01:46 PM
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All that said. it would eliminate those who have longer term issues, a history of violence, violent criminal record, etc.



You're already restricted in what you can buy, carry and transport.




That's the point, it certainly appears to be the exact opposite. It hasn't completely eliminated the black market in other countries, but it has made it much harder. Hard enough that the rate at which guns are used in crimes is significantly less than in the US. Can you buy an illegal gun in Canada, Japan, England? Yes. Is it easy? NO. What's easier? Go to the US, buy a gun and smuggle it back. Not too many drunk ex's and wannabe gangbangers do it.

Your first point.. So would a background check if it is something on record. If its not on record and you snap, reccurring checks still don't eliminate that with yearly checks. It WILL however, deter, to a degree.

Your second point, I should have clarified.. Its already restricted yes, but don't put it into a further chokehold. If someone carries 6 20 round mags vs 3 30 round mags doesn't matter... He will still accomplish his goal. This goes back to my point of someone how is set on committing an atrosity will commit that atrosity with whatever means possible. If he doesn't have a gun, he will find another way.

Your third point. There are black market guns now, and it will be worse in this country if a ban occurs in my opinion. Gives Mexico another opportunity to smuggle something in this country. They already have people, drugs.... Hell, lets add more guns to the list.

Streetdoc, thanks for those posts. Points well stated bro.
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post #333 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 02:15 PM
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It would be nice if a background check included psychological illness, which I don't think it does. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it only checks if you're a felon or have any outstanding warrants? You would have to sign a waiver to waive medical record privacy. Surprised this isn't already being done. Like others have said a lot more needs to be done outside of gun control but it would be a step in the right direction.

Trying to include a psych eval would cost a lot of money and as someone who has taken a few of them for employment as a sworn firefighter I believe they're very subjective. Better to just access medical records.
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post #334 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 02:24 PM
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Your first point.. So would a background check if it is something on record. If its not on record and you snap, reccurring checks still don't eliminate that with yearly checks. It WILL however, deter, to a degree.
Obviously, recurring checks aren't a perfect solution as they cannot catch every unbalanced person. They can, however, catch many more than merely doing nothing.

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Your second point, I should have clarified.. Its already restricted yes, but don't put it into a further chokehold.
Why not?

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This goes back to my point of someone how is set on committing an atrosity will commit that atrosity with whatever means possible. If he doesn't have a gun, he will find another way.
So your answer is to do nothing and give them an easy means to commit an atrocity?

For every Timothy McVey who is willing to plan for months, how many gun deaths are committed in the heat of the moment would be eliminated?


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There are black market guns now, and it will be worse in this country if a ban occurs in my opinion.
While I respect to your right to hold any opinion you like, opinions are not facts. The significantly lower rate of gun deaths and guns used in crimes in countries with gun restrictions is a fact.

Frankly the need for every drunk, jealous ex-husband to find a Mexican smuggler would be an excellent deterrent.
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post #335 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 02:42 PM
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Who is going to fight for the government if they were to act a fool? I certainly hope you don't believe our military..
Not everyone would help the government turn on us. But there would be some that would obey orders. Either they die along with the citizens or follow orders and fight against them. Police put down riots all the time. Sometimes even kill people. The entire military wouldn't disband. Even if the smallest amount remained they would still easily destroy the populous.

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post #336 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 03:13 PM
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a short read that definitely points to the problem we have in this country.

What makes America’s gun culture totally unique in the world, in four charts
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post #337 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 03:30 PM
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Why has every American got this "Shit is gonna hit the fan and our Government is going to try kill us all" burned into their heads? Am I missing something?
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post #338 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 03:36 PM
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a short read that definitely points to the problem we have in this country.

What makes America’s gun culture totally unique in the world, in four charts
What about this one?

MILLER: Gun ownership up, crime down - Washington Times
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post #339 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 03:41 PM
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Why has every American got this "Shit is gonna hit the fan and our Government is going to try kill us all" burned into their heads? Am I missing something?
It's an excuse, well over a third of americans don't even bother to vote. Fear of the government is a red herring.
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post #340 of 614 (permalink) Old 12-16-2012, 03:52 PM
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It's an excuse, well over a third of americans don't even bother to vote. Fear of the government is a red herring.
That's the only logical conclusion I can think of.


"I have no real reason to cling on to my assault rifle. Best say I need it to protect myself from the State."

Anyway, long story short. No ordinary citizen needs a fucking assault rifle. Get a hunting rifle for doing exactly that, and a handgun for personal protection. Then limit how much ammunition people can have. You don't need much on the off chance that you are in a situation that you need a gun. Then get over yourselves.

Stop kidding yourself that an ancient slip of paper has any relevance in modern society. It's the same reason so many lives are wasted because people still believe in fairytales (Yes, that's a stab at religion). Logic. Reason. Perspective. Get some, for the good of fucking humanity.

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