Gun Control Debate thread

[backstop13]

Originally Posted by Donutz

But it does unfortunately make you a minority. Especially with that second sentence in the quote above, which could get you shot on sight in certain circles.

that's probably true...i should watch my back talking like that

[mjd]

Originally Posted by oneshot

this will NEVER happen.. its a constitutional right to bare arms.

what does wearing short sleeves have to do with owning an arsenal of assault weapons?

[backstop13]

Originally Posted by Donutz

While this is true, and I agree it's also a tragedy, I don't think that bringing this up in this type of debate is going to have the effect that you want it to. The immediate assumption is going to be that you're trying to deflect -- typical rearguard action along the lines of "how can you complain about this while that is happening" or "this happes so that can't be all that unacceptable". Both of these strategies are typically used by people who just don't want to change this and can't or won't come up with any actual valid arguments. If this is not your intent, then you may want to rejigger your statements a little.

my statement was in reply to bones, who mentioned that 10,000 deaths isn't enough to get people riled up about changing gun laws. I wasn't using it as a defense, I was merely pointing out another killer which gets no real publicity. MADD does great work, but it's just doesn't carry the gravitas in which it should. I only meant it response saying how fucked up our American society is, in that we don't really get upset about any of the killers in our nation like guns or alcohol, but we sure enough attack marijuana like it's the next hitler.

Sorry if it came across as a defense or if it wasn't clear. I'm a damn engineer...i'm not good at this essay type writing/defending position stuff

[StreetDoc]

Originally Posted by kaka

Illegal guns will find their way onto the streets, there will still be murders of course, but there needs to be a cultural shift. This mentality of "it's in the constitution" must change, and changing a country this big, and stubborn in their ways will take generations, but it has to start somewhere.

Just my opinion

So you should just accept that you could potentially be a victim of gun violence? Because "guns will find there way onto the streets", but no one else should be able to defend themselves or their homes? Before you say call the police, average response time is 10 minutes in most of the country (20 minutes to CT shooting). Police are there to investigate not stop a crime. I won't be a victim. Believe it won't happen? Living in Chicago I had my house broken into 3 times in a two year period, luckily no one was home! Cops didnt do dick. When I asked them to finger print on the 3rd break in they laughed at me.

[StreetDoc]

Originally Posted by backstop13

my statement was in reply to bones, who mentioned that 10,000 deaths isn't enough to get people riled up about changing gun laws. I wasn't using it as a defense, I was merely pointing out another killer which gets no real publicity. MADD does great work, but it's just doesn't carry the gravitas in which it should. I only meant it response saying how fucked up our American society is, in that we don't really get upset about any of the killers in our nation like guns or alcohol, but we sure enough attack marijuana like it's the next hitler.

Sorry if it came across as a defense or if it wasn't clear. I'm a damn engineer...i'm not good at this essay type writing/defending position stuff

Guns kill people on their own didn't you know?!

[kaka]

Originally Posted by oneshot

this will NEVER happen.. its a constitutional right to bare arms.

This goes back to what I'm saying. It's the justification for advocates of not changing. This thing was written in the 1700's? Since then, the world has changed... Slavery, prohibition, these things were met with strong opposition from many camps when there was talk of getting rid of them. Adapting is part growing as country, falling behind and becoming 3rd world...

[StreetDoc]

Originally Posted by kaka

This goes back to what I'm saying. It's the justification for advocates of not changing. This thing was written in the 1700's? Since then, the world has changed... Slavery, prohibition, these things were met with strong opposition from many camps when there was talk of getting rid of them. Adapting is part growing as country, falling behind and becoming 3rd world...

You're right the world has gotten a lot uglier and there are bad people out there. All the more reason to have the ability to defend yourself. Why are you ignoring my reply to you? You have never been a victim before have you?

[boarderaholic]

Originally Posted by StreetDoc

You're right the world has gotten a lot uglier and there are bad people out there. All the more reason to have the ability to defend yourself. Why are you ignoring my reply to you? You have never been a victim before have you?

That's a bit of a slippery slope though, don't you think? At what point does does someone need a bigger, and better gun to protect themselves? It's kind of like fighting fire with fire, at what point do you have an inferno going?

[kaka]

Originally Posted by StreetDoc

You're right the world has gotten a lot uglier and there are bad people out there. All the more reason to have the ability to defend yourself. Why are you ignoring my reply to you? You have never been a victim before have you?

This is why this topic is such a great topic for debate, there are so many variables, and having been robbed, you would have more of an emotional/passionate view on something like this. I expect you want to hear 1 of 2 things, either to agree with you, ie. arm yourself and let fly, or to say remain unarmed and get robbed/killed? I think if faced with that situation, most would want the "protection".

However, if you have a gun in the house and faced with this scenario, as rare as it may be for the majority of people, I wonder if it would even help? Again, I should stress this is not right or wrong, just food for thought:

a) a responsible gun owner would have their gun locked up, which would make retrieval during a hostile home invasion almost impossible in said circumstance.
b) assuming you didn't lock the gun up (scary as that seems, but that's a whole other topic), do you think most humane people could actually look another person in the face and pull the trigger? Even in defense, don't undermine how difficult this is. Furthermore, does you having a gun now turn what may have been a robbery turn it into a shoot out, Wild West style? Remember, most home invaders want the loot and are not there to commit a senseless murder, but if they are facing someone armed, they will probably not hesitate as much as the other guy. Again, not true in all cases of course, but something to think about.

I hate to sound like an ass, but if you live in a rough neighborhood, do what you can to get out of there, move, give yourself a better chance of avoiding sad situations. Something North Americans have been trying to do for many years. It'll give you a better chance than an arms race in the community.

With or without guns, you cannot eliminate risk, only try and manage it the best way we feel we can.

[StreetDoc]

Originally Posted by kaka

This is why this topic is such a great topic for debate, there are so many variables, and having been robbed, you would have more of an emotional/passionate view on something like this. I expect you want to hear 1 of 2 things, either to agree with you, ie. arm yourself and let fly, or to say remain unarmed and get robbed/killed? I think if faced with that situation, most would want the "protection".

However, if you have a gun in the house and faced with this scenario, as rare as it may be for the majority of people, I wonder if it would even help? Again, I should stress this is not right or wrong, just food for thought:

a) a responsible gun owner would have their gun locked up, which would make retrieval during a hostile home invasion almost impossible in said circumstance.
b) assuming you didn't lock the gun up (scary as that seems, but that's a whole other topic), do you think most humane people could actually look another person in the face and pull the trigger? Even in defense, don't undermine how difficult this is. Furthermore, does you having a gun now turn what may have been a robbery turn it into a shoot out, Wild West style? Remember, most home invaders want the loot and are not there to commit a senseless murder, but if they are facing someone armed, they will probably not hesitate as much as the other guy. Again, not true in all cases of course, but something to think about.

I hate to sound like an ass, but if you live in a rough neighborhood, do what you can to get out of there, move, give yourself a better chance of avoiding sad situations. Something North Americans have been trying to do for many years. It'll give you a better chance than an arms race in the community.

With or without guns, you cannot eliminate risk, only try and manage it the best way we feel we can.

typical whiny liberal response. Trust me, if someone is in my home that doesn't belong there I would very easily shoot them into the ground until the magazine is empty. I wouldn't loose a millisecond of sleep either, I hate thieves with a passion and it would save the tax payers money when he will eventually end up on the street to do it again.

If you aren't ready to face that type of consequence you shouldn't have broken into my house, I don't care how addicted to drugs he is or how he grew up in a bad neighbhorhood... tough titty.

I have a fingerprint safe for my handgun that takes me a couple seconds to open. I also have no problem leaving a weapon outside of a safe if there are no kids in the house. Living in an area with a lot of break-ins would make me invest in a heavy safe though. I would also rather die in a gunfight then flee my own home, call me old fashioned I guess.

guns prevent crime ALL the time, it just isn't reported in main stream media because it doesn't further the liberal agenda.