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Old 11-24-2010, 02:39 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:54 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by clubmyke View Post
To my understanding - nowhere in the bible does it say if you don't accept Jesus you are going to hell-nowhere. In fact, nowhere does it say when you die, you go to heaven.
I agree on this. In fact it is this type of disconnect that creates a lot of the discord within and outside christianity. If xians in general behaved more like the early xians (to the extent that they could be referred to as a unit), there'd be a lot less conflict.

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In review, chances are if you don't like the teachings of Christ, than chances are you will not be comfortable with others who do or want to spend any lengthy sort of time being around them let alone God ( it would be uncomfortable for you as well as the other person).
Sorry, not to be insulting, but that sentence was torturous. I'm still not really sure what you were saying.

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Modern Islam sects/law can be very violent - if you do not accept Mohammad - you are killed as a heretic. To my knowledge there is no other religion 'today" that offers that. Most have and take on a "live and live" viewpoint
Again, I agree at least to the extent that with islam violence seems to be more generally accepted as a means to an end within this era. Go back a few hundred years or more and you wouldn't really be able to pinpoint a difference in degree of violence, although of course details would differ.

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In summary, what was originally presented was on atheism of which directly attacked the absurdity of denying a creative influence of origin of the universe (ie GOD).
Aaaaaaand we're back to this. There is no absurdity, except to someone who has already de facto accepted the existance of a "creative influence". It's a circular argument. If you are already willing to accept the existance of god then of course god did it. And if there's a god, why would you think the universe was created independantly of the actions of him her? But there's absolutely nothing ipso facto about it. The assumption that a deity exists is an unwarranted assumption based on nothing. Every argument that you can mount against "something from nothing" also applies to god. Every argument you can apply towards "outside the universe" or "always existed" can apply to the multiverse. The difference between your belief and mine is twofold: 1) yours requires one extra assumption -- the existance of a deity -- for which there is no proof, and 2) my belief is pursuable (is that a word?) in terms of mathematics, cosmology, and physics. Yours is not. It dead-ends.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:19 PM   #43 (permalink)
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blah.. blah... blah....

Attack the argument not the person.
no, you are a prat.

you have no argument, because you make mere statements without substantiation or even a reference.

your posts are not an invitation to debate, and are certainly never an ambition for you to genuinely share knowledge or even a hope to gain any enlightenment

so to reiterate, you are a prat and you should probably just fuck off.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:23 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:00 PM   #45 (permalink)
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i think twat is a more accurate descriptor.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:11 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Damn Mike. If your trying to create the ClubMyke fan club, memberships look a little thin. hehe

I know you are bored. Stuck between Wake boarding finishing and starting Snowboarding, butI think your post has rattled the cage and the moneys are annoyed hahaha.

though I think the comment on islam is not quite correct. yes I beleive the Koran does have some heavy handed opinions on Infidels, but most muslims are moderate. It is the extremists that use religion to its enth degree that is the worry.

If I recall my religion studies as a child.... I am sure the bible said somehting like "The dead shall lay in the ground and know nothing until the 2nd coming of christ" Now there are a lot of dead people laying out there waiting. Not many in heaven according to that bit of the bible.

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Old 11-24-2010, 07:32 PM   #47 (permalink)
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blah.. blah... blah....

Attack the argument not the person.
WTF? You want ad hominem? OK, you just went over the hill into stupidity here. The only statement I made about you there was when I called you a theist. OOOOOOOHH, big insult. Are you going to tell me now that you're insulted and you're really an atheist? This is exactly the kind of bob-and-weave shit that makes people sick of you.

If I'm going to be accused of an ad hominem attack, I want to earn it.
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:11 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Lets run with this then...so where did god come from?....
G-d could have been a being from a different dimension that interrupted our quantum frequency therefore creating the phenomenon we know as life. G-d can be with us right now, but we might not be able to interact with them because their form of existence is different than anything we can imagine.
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:54 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Damn Mike. If your trying to create the ClubMyke fan club, memberships look a little thin. hehe

I know you are bored. Stuck between Wake boarding finishing and starting Snowboarding, butI think your post has rattled the cage and the moneys are annoyed hahaha.

though I think the comment on islam is not quite correct. yes I beleive the Koran does have some heavy handed opinions on Infidels, but most muslims are moderate. It is the extremists that use religion to its enth degree that is the worry.

If I recall my religion studies as a child.... I am sure the bible said somehting like "The dead shall lay in the ground and know nothing until the 2nd coming of christ" Now there are a lot of dead people laying out there waiting. Not many in heaven according to that bit of the bible.
Hey Al - I hope all is well. How are you and the misses ?

In regards to your post - you aren't kidding - all I did was post a very funny observation on atheism (I thought it was funny) which just so happened to also take a sucker punch at the science/agnostic crowd on the absurdity of suggesting the universe wasn't designed.

In review of your observation on Islam - I would agree with you on most Muslims are moderate but there have been more violence in this century in the name of Sharia law than any other century. With that being said, it is radicalness from the followers of Sharia law that is now coming to the USA and it is quite disturbing.

In regards to the other statement about 2 coming and heaven. That is a post that would not be welcome on this forum but interesting enough, heaven is not the goal of Christianity (ie a place) it is a changed personality to be more Christ like and gain eternal life (ie John 3:16)

Cheers !!

Mike
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:24 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Sorry, not to be insulting, but that sentence was torturous. I'm still not really sure what you were saying.



Aaaaaaand we're back to this. There is no absurdity, except to someone who has already de facto accepted the existance of a "creative influence". It's a circular argument. If you are already willing to accept the existance of god then of course god did it. And if there's a god, why would you think the universe was created independantly of the actions of him her? But there's absolutely nothing ipso facto about it. The assumption that a deity exists is an unwarranted assumption based on nothing. Every argument that you can mount against "something from nothing" also applies to god. Every argument you can apply towards "outside the universe" or "always existed" can apply to the multiverse. The difference between your belief and mine is twofold: 1) yours requires one extra assumption -- the existance of a deity -- for which there is no proof, and 2) my belief is pursuable (is that a word?) in terms of mathematics, cosmology, and physics. Yours is not. It dead-ends.

1st point - I'll try to explainthis a different way. I seriously doubt a intent agnostic / atheist person would enjoy the company of a intent person who believed in God. Or, if God did exist and decided to have a visit and say "hi" I dont think a atheist would be comfortable with finding out more Him. It would be a uncomfortable situation for both if they just so happened to meet up since people dont like to go where they are not invited.

2nd point - while you say I require a extra assumption. I would like to point out that I agree with with yours explanations in terms of the mathematics, cosmology, and physics. But it is flawed on the basis it missing one critical piece - the artist/director/designer.

To admit the universe wasn't intentionally designed "makes perfect sense" as The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs
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