Gun Control Debate thread - Page 58 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-21-2012, 05:15 PM   #571 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
cc898's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bozeman
Posts: 155
Default

No thats not it, it was meant to say the info is out there, just need to look for it, I did not feel like posting a whole pile of links. Either you want to see the info or not, if you do, and you really care......its out there. Try youtube, tone of stuff on there, and for both sides I may add. Google search it. Look at some of the smaller English rags, once again its all out there.
cc898 is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:18 PM   #572 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
cc898's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bozeman
Posts: 155
Default

Donutz, you are almost right as has been pointed out. A bomb is much more effective at killiing than a gun. Pretty much ended the Japanese.

The gun is then the second best choice. But as you pointed out they are very effective for killing a lot of pepole quickly. Then and only then, if used by someone that has that intent to begin with.

Going back a few posts, I see my firearms as tools and not as fetish, I do not not own an AR, I have no need to.

Last edited by cc898; 12-21-2012 at 05:21 PM.
cc898 is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:37 PM   #573 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Squatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St Paul, MN
Posts: 12
Default guns... evil or not

I'm going on my tangent right now...
I own 4 guns, 1 Mosin Nagant, 1 Winchester 1200 (pump shotgun), One Muzzleloader, and 1 Kimber Pro CDP 2 (M1911 .45 cal pistol).
I have personally used 5 other firearms on deployment, M249 SAW, M240B, M4, M2 .50 cal, M9 (Baretta 92FS)

My experience with firearms is pretty decent, and I also know that ALL of these firearms are legal to own in the US, yes even actual machine guns, foriegn or domestic.

now onto what firearms I want:
Saiga 12 (12 guage Semi Auto Shotgun, 20 round drum mags available, far cheaper than an AR15)
AKM (stamped steel version of the AK47, since real AKs are actually hard to get)
SKS (another russian rifle, chambered the same as a AK variant)

now, my understanding is that my friends north of the border or around the world would call me a psycho, saying that I am amassing a stockpile of weapons, and that I need my weapons taken away, my fellow US citizens in certain parts of the country would fear me, thinking that I am up to no good, and that I need to be disarmed, my fellow Army National Guardsmen would be interested in what I have collected, and would want to go to the firing range/trap club/hunting/plinking with me, and most of the people around the country wouldn't bat an eye, because they honestly don't see me toting all of these firearms around town...

if you have been reading and paying attention, I brought up Machine guns, which could actually qualify as 'super' assault weapons, the can throw upwards of 900 to 1200 rounds downrange per minute, many people own them, and many people shoot them, but what you dn't see are tons of massacres involving these weapons...
wait stop, now knowing that a machine gun is a powerful weapon...and that this would be the mass murderers favorite method... why aren't they used in more mass shootings...

the answer is opportunity, mass murderers get whatever they can actually obtain, be it an AR (which seems to be the trend), which can be explained by the fact that ARs are so damn popular.

now if you want to bring up the assault weapons ban, and say that it is the fix all of the issue, you are wrong, this is why, the assault weapons ban, emplaced in 94,
banned all assault style firearms in civilian hands, wasn't there still gun crime, robberies, and mass shootings, yes, columbine was just that:

In the months prior to the attacks, Harris and Klebold acquired two 9 mm firearms and two 12-gauge shotguns. Their friend Robyn Anderson bought a rifle and the two shotguns at the Tanner Gun Show in December 1998. Through Robert Duran, another friend, Harris and Klebold later bought a handgun from Mark Manes for $500.

Using instructions acquired upon the Internet, Harris and Klebold constructed a total of 99 improvised explosive devices of various designs and sizes. They sawed the barrels and butts off their shotguns to make them easier to conceal.[4] They committed numerous felony violations of state and federal law, including the National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act of 1968, before they began the massacre.

On April 20, Harris was equipped with a 12-gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun, (which he discharged a total of 25 times) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm carbine with thirteen 10-round magazines, which he fired a total of 96 times.

Klebold was equipped with a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine and a 12-gauge Stevens 311D double-barreled sawed-off shotgun. Klebold primarily fired the TEC-9 handgun, for a total of 55 times.

so why do you think that banning assault weapons is such a winning argument.
they committed a crime similar to this one with different weapons, some acquired legally, and some illegally.

I said this was a tangent, and I'm sorry that it keeps running around, but this is straight from my mind.

next you say, no firearms, burn them all, if all of the guns are gone, crime will go away...
wrong, criminal activities go up, and violent crimes go up, murders and non firearm crimes go up as well, not to mention that these criminals can still obtain firearms, so now a lone gunman can waklk down any neighbor hood with illegally obtained firearms and start a massacre, what now...

back to me wanting more firearms, do I seem uneducated and unable to handle a firearm, do I seem like a guy who wants to go into a school and shoot people, no, do I want to kill anyone, no, niether here or overseas, will I if my life depends on it, or my family, or my loved ones, or even a bunch of innocents, be they children teens adults or elderly, if I am armed I will defend...people see the trend in weaponry, but the forget the trend in places, schools, theaters, malls, all public, all ban firearms, and tend to be opportune targets, and there has been good to come from firearm ownership,
people protecting themselves and others because they were armed in the right place at the right time, but that is never covered in the news, no only the bad, the ugly and the scary...

basically I am trying to whittle it down to the fact that firearms are not the cause of these horrific crimes, and that people who are unstable are, and that there is no catch all to stop violent crimes, unlike some of you believe...
Let me have my guns, and feel safe, my apartment is safe, and so are my nieghbors, quit tagging guns and gun owners as inherently evil for wanting to collect and fire these weapons, for wanting to arm themselves legally, and for wanting to educate the youth in proper firearm technique, so go ahead, punish everyone for a few peoples stupidity...
Squatch is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:38 PM   #574 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
AcroPhile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 922
Default

The NRA is now calling for an armed police officer at every school. Quite frankly, I would much rather have my kid attending a school with an armed cop than living in a place with extremely strict gun controls. Connecticut gun laws are on the stricter end of the spectrum in the US and it didn't stop Adam Laza from killing over 2 dozen people. Chicago, New York City and California have some of the strictest gun control laws out there. Is it any safer there?

What type of gun restrictions could possibly prevent these types of mass shootings from happening? Even if all sales of "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines were immediately stopped it would have no impact on the hundreds of thousands of these items already in circulation and have been legally purchased.

Who honestly thinks that tighter gun controls or a complete ban of military style semi-automatic rifles will prevent future shootings? Is there anyone the really thinks if James Holmes or Adam Laza couldn't get ahold of an AR-15 they would have never killed anyone and gone on living their lives being outstanding citizens? Did the assault weapons ban of 1994-2004 prevent Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold from shooting up Columbine?

Lets be honest here. Most people that say they want stricter gun control laws use it as a euphemism for an outright ban on guns. What's the end game here? If, hypothetically, assault rifles and high capacity magazines are outlawed then what are they going to go after that? Another mass shooting is going to inevitably happen sooner or later. What even stricter gun regulations are they going to want next? As long as shootings of any sort continue to happen, the anti-gun crowd will want to make it harder and harder for law abiding citizens to get guns to keep us "safe" until the second amendment is no more.

Ar-15's and high capacity magazines are an easy target to go after but out of the 32,000 gun deaths in this country only a tiny fraction of a percent are directly attributed to mass shootings. Wouldn't anti-handgun legislation be a more efective way of curbing gun related homicides in this country? Or is it just easier to go after AR-15's?
AcroPhile is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:40 PM   #575 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Squatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St Paul, MN
Posts: 12
Default Tl;dr

quit blaming all of the gun owners for the problems pertaining to firearms, blame it on the people who lack judgement to use them responsibly
Squatch is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:46 PM   #576 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
cc898's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bozeman
Posts: 155
Default

Intelligence!!! 3X^
cc898 is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:57 PM   #577 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squatch View Post

back to me wanting more firearms, do I seem uneducated and unable to handle a firearm, do I seem like a guy who wants to go into a school and shoot people, no, do I want to kill anyone, no, niether here or overseas, will I if my life depends on it, or my family, or my loved ones, or even a bunch of innocents, be they children teens adults or elderly, if I am armed I will defend...

You seem like you're one B&E or crossfire away from several deaths.
Bones is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:01 PM   #578 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squatch View Post
quit blaming all of the gun owners for the problems pertaining to firearms, blame it on the people who lack judgement to use them responsibly
2 911's per year yet no one is responsible. Not the gun store or the trade show or the dead mother or the Colombine parents.

Shit just happens, I guess.
Bones is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:40 PM   #579 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Squatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St Paul, MN
Posts: 12
Default

you blame the salesmen for selling the guns?
do you blame the liquor or the drunk driver for killing families on the road.
do you blame the aircraft manufacturer, aircraft fuel processors, or the terrorists for the attacks on 9/11 since you are so quick to jump to that tragedy
blaming this on current gun laws is a not the answer, go straight to the source, put the responsibilities on the people who lack the intellect to make the right choices, and lack the discipline to handle weaponry.

Everyone has a choice, everyone from john wilkes boothe, to the terrorists of 9/11, so I guess using your logic, take the choices from the people and it will be perfect?

just look at it like this, take the assualt weapons, they use pistols, take away pistols, hunting rifles are next for them, take those away, and they start making firearms themselves, yet the law abiding citizens just lost their ability cover their own asses, crime just gets easier the more you take away

Last edited by Squatch; 12-21-2012 at 06:42 PM.
Squatch is offline  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:47 PM   #580 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squatch View Post
crime just gets easier the more you take away
And yet gun death rates are a mere fraction of America's in every country that does this.

Must be a coincidence



And we already hold the bartender or host responsible for over serving drunk drivers thru fines, loss of license, criminal and civil litigation, etc.

We already blame airport security for the shoe bomber and 911 and have made drastic changes to airline security

We already blame the pilot for and the aircraft manufacturer for plane crashes and have mandated numerous changes to pilot training and aircraft design.

So let's follow your examples and do the same thing: mandate changes to gun ownership or gun sales in response to the huge number of gun homicides?

Last edited by Bones; 12-21-2012 at 07:00 PM.
Bones is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums