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Old 12-25-2012, 03:27 AM   #21 (permalink)
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You really going to try to make the comparison between backcountry deaths and gun deaths? For starters the numbers aren't even close. For another, backcountry deaths are accidents like dying in a plane crash not an intentional act of violence. For another, most backcountry deaths are self inflicted. So is gun suicide; care to compre the numbers on that one? You threw that argument as a "gotcha" because I am a backcountry guide but you really didn't think it through.
I was just fuckin with ya, not serious at all

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Sorry, but I do not see higher rates of other crimes in Australia, Japan or Canada to mame a few, compared to America. It's simple basic logic; if guns are very difficult to come by, logic dictates that crimes committed with guns go down. To suggest that lack of guns causes other crime defies any logic or reason my poor brain can comprehend.
See my post above, I can find stats that say anything

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We can sit and talk and conjecture forever. We have done enough of that and we have tried damn near everything else to curb this senseless killing with the exception of getting serious about guns. At first, you are right, I doubt we will see any immediate change but as we evolve as a country away from this "gun culture" I think we will see radical change. Doing nothing isn't working obviously. Look a Newton Ct parent who just buried their child or the wives, parents, cildren of these two firefighters in the eye and tell them gun control isn't worth at least trying.
It's just not plausible to remove ALL firearms from the hands of criminals and kooks.

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Look Jeffrey, you and I agree on many political posititions and up until recently I was a staunch, unyielding proponent of no increase in gun regulation. My position on this issue has hardened in light of recent events and I support reasonable gun regulation and outright confiscation of these weapons that serve no purpose beyond killing as many people as possible as fast as possible. Not talking about taking away anyone's hunting rifles or grandma's revolver but I am sick of these semi auto military style weapons popping up in every mass shooting. Now I admit, I don't know yet what weapon this kook used but that is neither here nor there. The fact remains that we have a serious gun control problem when a guy like this can get his hands on any gun.
My heart goes out to those affected by this crime, however it could have been carried out with a single shot 30-06 just as easily.

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I totally respect you as a person and actually agree with most of your positions. But I am sorry, I can't go down this road with you my friend. We may just need to agree to disagree and let the democratic process work; may the best side win.
Sorry, but I have never trusted the "democratic" process it is a cesspool of hidden agendas, the side with the most money wins regardless if it's right or wrong.

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Lets also not forget that six other families are homeless today on Christmas with no possesions because this nut and his fucking gun prevented the firefighters from putting out the fire. They too are victims of gun crime and our unwillingness as a society to address this issue has failed them too.
We need to address nutjobs!!
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:38 AM   #22 (permalink)
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It's okay. You're entitled to your opinion as am I. I simply do not agree; not anymore.
So does that mean if I come for a visit going shooting is out of the question

I do respect your opinions and views on this matter, it's a very complicated one for sure. I still have no idea how I would react if the jack boots come for my weapons. I'm not really the type that would go out in a blaze of glory gunfight style.
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Sure, you "could" do all that and anyone "could" do whatever. That is conjecture. On the other hand people "are" using guns to easily kill.
And frequently at that.

There is, on average, a multiple shooting every 5.9 days. Which means that will likely be another one by New Year's Eve. Unfortunately, it will probably be a "run of the mill" shooting and won't make the news or it will involve a criminal and will be used as justification for increasing the availability of guns.
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:38 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I don't see this as "nanny laws". To me "nanny laws" are laws that only try to protect me from myself like helmet and seatbelt laws. Laws such as gun control are valid and in my mind Constitutional because it is congress' job to "promote the general welfare" and protect the rights of all Americans to "pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", none of which is possible in an armed madhouse.
Well said.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:56 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Oh and sure other countries with harsh gun controls may have less gun violence, but other violent crimes like rape, and robbery shoot way up
Nope. Not true. At least not for Canada (again, this is where I live, so it's what I'm familiar with. Not claiming Canada is "special").

I can not think of ONE SINGLE CRIME that I have to be more afraid of in Canada than in the USA. At worst, the stats on any particular crime might be the same.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:47 AM   #26 (permalink)
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As much as I am for more gun regulation banning assault rifles is not something I agree with. The reason these are being used is because they are the cheapest, most common, weapon available. You can get an AR 15 for around $800. They are not that hard to get. However if you ban them completely you will simply have people using shotguns. Which are much more deadly up close.

As I am for clip restrictions, this doesn't help that argument. The limit is five rounds in New York state.

Also, this guy had obtained the gun illegally. He was a convicted felon and spent 15 years in prison earlier for killing a family member with a fucking hammer. People are fucking crazy and do illegal things. I think we should focus more on the access to guns and cracking down on illegal gun trafficking and the restrictions we already have in place instead of restricting the types of guns people are allowed to own.

This case really isn't an advocate for any type of gun regulation or loosening the gun laws. The weapon was obtained illegally. And even if it was obtained legally New York is the strictest state on firearms. The firearm laws in place in this state are good ones. I think the NY model is a good model for other states with the exception of the five round clip restriction (should be around 15) and the easy access to rifles.

That's just my opinion though, everyone has theirs. Let's just hope these assholes are done with this shit. It's fucking Christmas for gods sake, and you're killing kindergarteners and volunteer fireman.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:48 AM   #27 (permalink)
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No. Ordinary. Citizen. Needs. A. Fucking. Assault. Rifle.

Kay America?


You know, for a long time I've pictured finding a way to acquire a visa so I could stay and work in Cali. I love Tahoe you see.

Changed my fucking mind. Idiots. If I move, I'm going to Canada, NZ or Japan.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:50 AM   #28 (permalink)
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However if you ban them completely you will simply have people using shotguns. Which are much more deadly up close.


I don't understand. Shotguns not only have a lower capacity, but they also have lower range and longer reload times. Sounds like they aren't going to be as effective in a massacre as an AR 15.

No matter what firearm you use, at close range, you will kill. Assault Rifles aren't fucking necessary.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:57 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Apparently 3 different types of weapons were found on him including a rifle. Sounds like a semi-auto. Probably some type of AR. Good thing this guy wasn't shooting without anyone shooting back, could've been a lot worse.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:03 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I don't understand. Shotguns not only have a lower capacity, but they also have lower range and longer reload times. Sounds like they aren't going to be as effective in a massacre as an AR 15.

No matter what firearm you use, at close range, you will kill. Assault Rifles aren't fucking necessary.
Shotguns don't have a lower capacity And do not have a longer reload time. Shotguns have clips just like rifles. Even the ones that don't have speed loaders. The range doesn't matter. Shootings take place at around 15 yards. 95% of police engagements take place at 7 yards or less. This is why police carry pistols and shotguns.

Also, Assault rifle is the broadest term on the planet. Any rifle can be classified as an assault rifle. Keep in mind the past two shootings have happened using illegally obtained firearms.

I actually do use an AR. I use it to keep up my accuracy. Not only that, I use it to hunt predators. It is THE perfect weapon for hunting Coyote and Fox. Against defenseless people, just about any firearms with enough ammunition is going to do unspeakable damage.
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