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Old 12-25-2012, 08:10 PM   #31 (permalink)
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The spread pattern of a shotgun, even on full choke, is such that it is not lethal on the other side of a mall food court like an AR or AK firing a high velocity, flat trajectory round like the .223 or .762 a shotgun is not going to take the masses out like an AR. Kooks pick them because they are effective not because the are easy to get and cheap. There are MUCH cheaper semi automatic rifles out there than these guns. Hell, J&G guns online is always advertising surplus 8MM Mausers for under $100 shipped. I have shot one and they are fun and pack a punch.

Sorry but i grew up hunting and the AR is not the BEST weapon to hunt predators with. In Montana where I gre up, due to the sheep ranchers, there was a $25 bounty on Coyote pelts and we used to earn a lot of money hunting and an AR was not even something we considered. My gun of choice then was 7mm with a 9 power Leopold scope. Most of my buds used 30-06 or 30-30 brush guns.

Edge is right; no rational, same person needs a fucking assault weapon.
There's a reason bear guides carry shotguns with slugs while baiting, they straight up fuck shit up. If people drop deer with them at 200 they could kill across a food court.

AR's are great varmint guns, actually they work very well for the type of deer hunting me and my uncle do as well.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:41 PM   #32 (permalink)
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An "assault rifle" is to broad of a term. I understand what you are saying, but then where do we draw the line. It's a very thin line. You swap out the barrel and firing pin in and AR (like most guns do now) and they now fire a normal .22 bullet. Much less firepower. Still the same gun. Yet the .22 rifle would be legal. It's tricky and if they are going to do it they need to do it with care and implement something with people who actually know what they are talking about. I don't want senators banning things they don't even know what they are.

An AR is the perfect gun for hunting predators. Not exactly for where you are, but for a mix of wooded and fielded areas like here it is. Sometimes you are shooting a coyote within 10 yards and sometimes it's 100+ yards. The AR is the do it all gun. That's the type of gun you need for hunting these animals. You need to be able to fire multiple times quickly too. One ran into a woman's house when hunting it and it attacked her. She fended it off with a pan at first, but it was just about to attack her again when the hunter came in and shot it a few more times and downed it. This was after it had been shot twice.

I am not against restricting it, but banning it all together is not something I can support.

There is no logical reason to have any rifle if that is the argument we are going by. You can hunt deer with shotguns. You can hunt any animal with slugs. That is all we can hunt with here. No rifles what so ever. We are doing just fine. We still have shootings like this.

I say we should have an extremely rough and long process for acquiring these weapons. Those who are going to respect it are going to go through the process. Those who aren't are going to get it illegally. For example, if you own these weapons and have gone through the process to get them then police have the right to search your house without a permit whenever they want. That's how it is in Carolina for owning a silencer on top of having a special permit.

On that note I am done. We all have different opinions. The only thing I am gonna say is if they do a broad blanket ban an AR they are going to fuck it up massively. AR is a broad term and the people who are going to buy these weapons already have over the past few weeks. Gun sales on these weapons are through the roof. It would only prevent them from getting in the hands of law abiding citizens. It would also piss me off that I am authorized to fire weapons that could destroy entire villages in the Army, but can't own a fucking rifle for hunting and target practice. If they do a ban, at least do it right.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:25 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I don't think taking guns away would keep things like this from happening. Guns are not the only existing weapon to use. Also keep in mind in most of the recent incidents the gun was stolen and not purchased. If guns are banned you are merely taking guns away from law abiding citizens while criminals who find them on the street anyway will be packing. As far as crazy rampages go you will be inviting more creativity like homemade bombs etc..

The real way to prevent is for the world to take on a real responsibility for children by having more mentorism, more advanced counselors, therapy ,mental health research, etc...and more positive things on the media airwaves...


If this keeps happening watch us tip to a police state, Marshall law, armed guards everywhere, get arrested for looking the wrong way....etc....

Sigh
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:20 AM   #34 (permalink)
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A little chart from Australia, showing after the gun ban in 97 that homicides with knives went WAY up. We should ban steak knifes too?
Australian Institute of Criminology - Homicide weapon statistics
Actually if you read the graph properly then the average (mean line) deaths from guns has decreased from 30% of homicides to 20% and knives have increased from34% to 38%. Hardly what i call "WAY" up. In fact i believe a drop of 10% and an increase of 4% = a total drop of 6% hence less homicides. The actual homicide numbers for 2006/07 were 15% gun (a 14% drop from 96) and 45% knife (a 11% increase from 96).

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^You did read that right? shows how statistics are skewed to support an argument (like i did and you did)

Look i have skipped a few pages so forgive me if i repeat anything others have said. First off, Australia, well im from there and i have also lived in the US for 5 years.

Some observations from me, in my entire life in Aus i have never seen anyone have a pistol in their car, my first week in Louisiana i saw 4 in cars i rode in. Secondly, in Aus i have never seen a gun pulled at a party, my 2nd month in the US i did.

Thirdly, after Port Arthur (96 massacre) gun laws were obviously changed, so does that mean crime rates change? Probably not but what it does mean is that GUN crime goes down, which means that there will be less massacres or mass killings which i believe was the entire point of the revised laws. We have not had one since and hopefully never do again.

Your analogies are a way for you to justify owning such weapons that may be banned should gun laws be tightened. For starters knife crime did not go "WAY" up, i'm sure it increased and why do you think that is, well its cos those assholes who kill didn't have access to a gun that could feasibly kill many more people in one go. I also know that if someone pulled a knife i have a better chance of running from them than out running a barrage of bullets.

Anyone who compares other forms of crime or homicide to that with an assault weapons is searching for a way to justify their outdated, ignorant and selfish views and wants. I AM YET TO HEAR A VALID REASON WHY A CIVILIAN NEEDS AN ASSAULT RIFLE. Australia is a much safer place than the US and i attribute this to our gun laws and how hard it is to get your hands on one. Your analogy of someone beating people in a mall with a tyre iron is so far off rational its laughable.

If someone walks into a mall and starts stabbing people or beating them with a baseball bat, i am 100% certain someone would try and stop them if not more than one, if someone does the same with a gun then i'm tipping everyone runs.

I am sorry Jeff but you are way off, and until you have lived in my country then kindly keep your retarded comparisons to yourself, cos they are not relevant at all in your argument.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:39 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Once again, the problem is not with guns, my hunting rifles are designed to kill, period! As are ALL guns, what I kill with them is up to me. Not sure how many rattle snakes I killed with my hand gun growing up on the farm, but I'm sure it saved my life more then once. You yourself have stated that you carry an automatic pistol in the outback.
And sorry i couldn't resist this one, seriously you think your hand gun saved you from dying from a rattlesnake bite? Dude i live in a country that has 7 of the top 10 deadly snakes, i grew up in the country where we frequently (every second day) had the 2nd (eastern brown) and 5th (tiger snake) most venomous snake on our back step or in our yard.

You know how many i killed with a gun? ?? ONE and that was cos i had no choice,it came into the house. USUALLY i would just walk away and they in turn, left. So forgive me for thinking that a handgun for snakes is fucking stupid, never mind having to have a great fucking aim, if you are so damn close why would you waste time and shoot it, how bout just walk away.

Ohh and FYI about 12 people die in the US from snake bites every year (most aged 55+). In Australia with all our deadly snakes ww lose statistically 1.5 people per year from snake bites. And i believe most people in both countries were handing snakes or trying to. Maybe instead of shooting at snakes with a handgun you should try and educate yourself on what to do instead.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:13 AM   #36 (permalink)
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So everyone who is worried about Assault weapons getting banned. Since they are needed for defense. When some nut starts shooting up the mall, school, workplace you are at. Are you going to pull out your assault rifle or is it going to be your hand gun?
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:44 AM   #37 (permalink)
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where you call out your neighbors and publish their information in public:


http://www.lohud.com/interactive/art...nclick_check=1

this place should be shut down and the editors charged.


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Old 12-26-2012, 09:59 AM   #38 (permalink)
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And sorry i couldn't resist this one, seriously you think your hand gun saved you from dying from a rattlesnake bite? Dude i live in a country that has 7 of the top 10 deadly snakes, i grew up in the country where we frequently (every second day) had the 2nd (eastern brown) and 5th (tiger snake) most venomous snake on our back step or in our yard.

You know how many i killed with a gun? ?? ONE and that was cos i had no choice,it came into the house. USUALLY i would just walk away and they in turn, left. So forgive me for thinking that a handgun for snakes is fucking stupid, never mind having to have a great fucking aim, if you are so damn close why would you waste time and shoot it, how bout just walk away.

Ohh and FYI about 12 people die in the US from snake bites every year (most aged 55+). In Australia with all our deadly snakes ww lose statistically 1.5 people per year from snake bites. And i believe most people in both countries were handing snakes or trying to. Maybe instead of shooting at snakes with a handgun you should try and educate yourself on what to do instead.
This is one of the smartest posts I've read with regard to the gun debate.

To ThunderChunky: I know you're done with this and I'm certainly not trying to start with you. But you continue to go back to the fox that ran into the woman's house and tried to attack her as a reason for an assault weapon.

It was being chased by a hunter, correct? The poor thing was scared for its life. I'd venture to guess it attacked her because hey, the fox has no idea if that human was going to try to kill it too. You didn't mention if it was rabid, so I'm going to assume it wasn't.

Animals do not attack unless they perceive a threat. When you walk away, as cjcameron11 pointed out, there is no threat. Obviously in situations like a bear with her cubs is one where even if you walk away, the bear may still view you as a threat.

But education on how to handle encounters with wildlife is key. Shooting animals is not always the best way.

And foxes considered as vermin? - foxes actually hunt and eat what is considered vermin: like mice, rats, rabbits, moles, voles, etc.

If you're going to say foxes/coyotes attack farm sheep and fowl, yeah, they do. But prevention is better here. You lock them up in a sound, predator-proof structure (like a barn or coop) before dusk. Or have a dog or donkey in the herd. Both have been used for the protection of herd animals like sheep. Donkeys especially are pretty scrappy.

There are many other ways to "deal" with predators. An assault rifle is not the best solution.

Just to add, I grew up on a farm and have lived in rural areas my entire life. Never once have I had to shoot or kill anything to save my life, or the lives of my livestock.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:09 AM   #39 (permalink)
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we do have to do a better job at making sure these guns are not so damn easy to come by!
And this is what the argument boils down to.

Some say that making the guns illegal makes them harder, but not impossible, to come by. Making the "crime of passion" multiple shooting like Sandy Hook much more difficult in that it would require advance planning on the part of the nutcase (something that most nut bags aren't good at)

Others are unwilling to compromise on the existing situation, basically saying that the risk is worth it.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:27 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Actually if you read the graph properly then the average (mean line) deaths from guns has decreased from 30% of homicides to 20% and knives have increased from34% to 38%. Hardly what i call "WAY" up. In fact i believe a drop of 10% and an increase of 4% = a total drop of 6% hence less homicides. The actual homicide numbers for 2006/07 were 15% gun (a 14% drop from 96) and 45% knife (a 11% increase from 96).




^You did read that right? shows how statistics are skewed to support an argument (like i did and you did)

Look i have skipped a few pages so forgive me if i repeat anything others have said. First off, Australia, well im from there and i have also lived in the US for 5 years.

Some observations from me, in my entire life in Aus i have never seen anyone have a pistol in their car, my first week in Louisiana i saw 4 in cars i rode in. Secondly, in Aus i have never seen a gun pulled at a party, my 2nd month in the US i did.

Thirdly, after Port Arthur (96 massacre) gun laws were obviously changed, so does that mean crime rates change? Probably not but what it does mean is that GUN crime goes down, which means that there will be less massacres or mass killings which i believe was the entire point of the revised laws. We have not had one since and hopefully never do again.

Your analogies are a way for you to justify owning such weapons that may be banned should gun laws be tightened. For starters knife crime did not go "WAY" up, i'm sure it increased and why do you think that is, well its cos those assholes who kill didn't have access to a gun that could feasibly kill many more people in one go. I also know that if someone pulled a knife i have a better chance of running from them than out running a barrage of bullets.

Anyone who compares other forms of crime or homicide to that with an assault weapons is searching for a way to justify their outdated, ignorant and selfish views and wants. I AM YET TO HEAR A VALID REASON WHY A CIVILIAN NEEDS AN ASSAULT RIFLE. Australia is a much safer place than the US and i attribute this to our gun laws and how hard it is to get your hands on one. Your analogy of someone beating people in a mall with a tyre iron is so far off rational its laughable.

If someone walks into a mall and starts stabbing people or beating them with a baseball bat, i am 100% certain someone would try and stop them if not more than one, if someone does the same with a gun then i'm tipping everyone runs.

I am sorry Jeff but you are way off, and until you have lived in my country then kindly keep your retarded comparisons to yourself, cos they are not relevant at all in your argument.
Had you read my subsequent post you would know that I said I can find stats that say anything. I posted links that support 3 different positions to emphasis that. My point being that this is america and what works elsewhere, will not work here. Does your gov't do things with your money and in your name that make you a target for every 3rd world fanatic on the planet? Does Aus. have armed bands of kooks running around the woods? Does Aus. have organized street gangs controlling most major inner cities? Do you REALLY think that ANY law is going to effect that? If we ban "assault" rifles feel free to come over take a walk through south central L.A. and see how safe you feel. We had a mall shooting in Omaha, kid used a hunting rifle, I have no idea if it would have been worse if he had a "assault" rifle. The fact remains that this is a problem with American society as whole, NOT with what hardware is available. We glorify this shit, TV ratings are based on this shit, political hacks on both sides make money off this shit, gun lobbies throw tons of money at this shit, anti gun lobbies throw tons of money at this shit...to en act any legislation based on these emotional events is ludicrous...think 911 and the patriot act....When Aus. faces the same problems as we do here then come back and talk shit . And to you personally, to stop at a post, take it out of context with out reading beyond WTF ever got your panties in a wad and call me retarded is...well ignorant to say the least. Why don't you go throw a boomerang and try to hit yourself in the head because you know fuck all about the U.S.

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Originally Posted by cjcameron11 View Post
And sorry i couldn't resist this one, seriously you think your hand gun saved you from dying from a rattlesnake bite? Dude i live in a country that has 7 of the top 10 deadly snakes, i grew up in the country where we frequently (every second day) had the 2nd (eastern brown) and 5th (tiger snake) most venomous snake on our back step or in our yard.

You know how many i killed with a gun? ?? ONE and that was cos i had no choice,it came into the house. USUALLY i would just walk away and they in turn, left. So forgive me for thinking that a handgun for snakes is fucking stupid, never mind having to have a great fucking aim, if you are so damn close why would you waste time and shoot it, how bout just walk away.

Ohh and FYI about 12 people die in the US from snake bites every year (most aged 55+). In Australia with all our deadly snakes ww lose statistically 1.5 people per year from snake bites. And i believe most people in both countries were handing snakes or trying to. Maybe instead of shooting at snakes with a handgun you should try and educate yourself on what to do instead.
Ok Ok you got me...I was bit as a kid, became violently ill, after that I carried a .22 pistol, and shot every fucking snake I saw. And yes I AM DEADLY accurate with...well....anything...so didn't "save my life" .....meh....I'm pulling "A you" and calling you a retard for no reason other then cultural differences cause I don't feel like typing anymore...so fuck off you POS descendant of an english convict
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