Is there a way to turn Salt Water into a fuel to power a car.... - Snowboarding Forum

05-07-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

SANIBEL ISLAND, Fla. -- A Florida man may have accidentally invented a machine that could solve the gasoline and energy crisis plaguing the U.S., WPBF News 25 reported.

Sanibel Island resident John Kanzius is a former broadcast executive from Pennsylvania who wondered if his background in physics and radio could come in handy in treating the disease from which he suffers: cancer.

Kanzius, 63, invented a machine that emits radio waves in an attempt to kill cancerous cells while leaving normal cells intact. While testing his machine, he noticed that his invention had other unexpected abilities.

Filling a test tube with salt water from a canal in his back yard, Kanzius placed the tube and a paper towel in the machine and turned it on. Suddenly, the paper towel ignited, lighting up the tube like it was a wax candle.

"Pretty neat, huh?" Kanzius asked WPBF's Jon Shainman.

Kanzius performed the experiment without the paper towel and got the same result -- the saltwater was actually burning.

The former broadcasting executive said he showed the experiment to a handful of scientists across the country who claim they are baffled at watching salt water ignite.

Kanzius said the flame created from his machine reaches a temperature of around 3,000 degrees Farenheit. He said a chemist told him that the immense heat created from the machine breaks down the hydrogen-oxygen bond in the water, igniting the hydrogen.

"You could take plain salt water out of the sea, put it in containers and produce a violent flame that could heat generators that make electricity, or provide other forms of energy," Kanzius said.

He said engineers are currently experimenting with him in Erie, Pa. in an attempt to harness the energy. They've built an engine that, when placed on top of the flame, chugged along for two minutes, Kanzius told WPBF.

Kanzius admits all the excitement surrounding a new possible energy source was a stroke of luck. Someone who witnessed his work on the cancer front asked him if perhaps the machine could be used for desalinization.

"This was an experiment to see if I could heat salt water, and instead of heat, I got fire," Kanzius said.

Kanzius said he hoped that his invention could one day solve a lot of the world's energy problems.

"If I were to be bold enough, I think one day you could power an automobile with this, eventually," Kanzius told WPBF.

YouTube - Saltwater into fire 2 (John Kanzius)

Can you guys imagine if this would replace our dependence on foreign oil and all types of oil in General.

05-07-2008, 12:27 PM

that's pretty interesting. how long ago was that article written?

05-07-2008, 07:42 PM

i think almost a year ago, But last i heard the Big Oil companys bought his patent out.

cifex · 05-07-2008, 10:34 PM

It does work. It has not been researched enough to know if enough energy can be generated in this fashion compared to the amount of energy it takes to run the RF Generator to be efficient. The current process of hydrolysis is only about 50% efficient. Though I don't think using radio waves would be efficient in any way since so much of the energy is lost and scattered out into the universe.

05-07-2008, 11:57 PM

but I do think it's going toward the right direction, I mean come on if this guy can come up with this many other scientist can do it. I need to get to a laptop and I can show you guys a video on running a rotary rx-8 hydrogen car in japan. I honestly think hydro is the next fuel for the world. I really think hybrids are a fashion statement to say I care. Which in reality is as much of destrution of the enviormemt as using fossil fuels.

I will edit when I get to a laptop, I wrote this on my itouch

05-08-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thoris

I really think hybrids are a fashion statement to say I care.

i completely agree with that. if all the stuff we hear about global warming is accurate, there's no way enough people would have them in time to make any difference. automobiles don't even account for all that much pollution as most people think either, compared to plants and buildings and such. they're just a way for stop and go/city drivers to save some gas money immediately.

05-08-2008, 09:51 AM

the other thing is what about the fricken batterys that go in a few years. Of how much waste that will create, its almost as mad as using fossil fuels

05-08-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

HIROSHIMA, October 27, 2004 – Today, Japan's transport authorities gave Mazda permission to road test a hydrogen-fueled, rotary-engine version of its RX-8 sports car. This unique vehicle features a dual-fuel system that allows the driver to select hydrogen or gasoline with the flick of a switch. In what could prove a historic event, this will be the world's first "street legal" dual-fuel hydrogen rotary. Permission from Japan's Ministry of Land Infrastructure and Transport (MLIT) comes 12 months after Mazda unveiled a hydrogen/rotary concept version of the award-winning RX-8 at the 2003 Tokyo Motor Show. Mazda's near-term goal is to assess the practicality of this unique powertrain in everyday use. In the next-stage, expected within two years, test vehicles will be leased to governments and fleet users. Known as H2RE, the test vehicle will deliver good performance with no loss of interior space for four people--the high-pressure hydrogen fuel tank is mounted in the vehicle's trunk. The H2RE is powered by a modified version of Mazda's award-winning RENESIS rotary engine that features an electronically controlled hydrogen gas direct injection system on the rotor housing. RENESIS has proved ideal for burning hydrogen as the intake area of a rotary engine stays relatively cool in temperature, reducing the tendency for engine backfire--a significant challenge in conventional engines. The hydrogen/rotary combination likewise offers superior environmental performance--zero emission of CO2 and near zero NOx emissions. And because existing parts and production facilities are used, the innovative engine can be built reliably at a relatively low cost. More importantly, the hydrogen/gasoline dual fuel system will enable the H2RE to travel beyond the range of the few hydrogen filling stations now available. Mazda will continue to develop this technology for practical use and work to support the development of a hydrogen-fueled society. Major specifications of "Mazda RX-8 Hydrogen Rotary Engine Vehicle"

* Base model: Mazda RX-8
* Base engine: 13B Dual Fuel Hydrogen Rotary Engine
* Length: 4.435m
* Width: 1.770m
* Height: 1.325m
* Wheelbase: 2.7m
* Weight: 1,440kg
* Passenger capacity: Four adults
* Fuel: Hydrogen or Gasoline
* Fuel tank Hydrogen: 74L / 35MPa high-pressure tank
* Gasoline: 61L

History of Mazda's hydrogen vehicle development

* 1991 Developed first hydrogen rotary engine vehicle, HR-X
* 1992 Test drive of golf cart equipped with fuel cell
* 1993 Developed second hydrogen rotary engine vehicle, HR-X2, Developed MX-5 test vehicle equipped with hydrogen rotary engine
* 1995 Conducted Japan's first public road test with Capella Cargo equipped with hydrogen rotary engine
* 1997 Developed Demio FC-EV
* 2001 Developed Premacy FC-EV, conducted first public road test in Japan. (Methanol Reforming)
* 2003 Announced RX-8 hydrogen rotary engine vehicle development
* 2004 Received MLIT approval for public road testing of the H2RE dual-fuel RX-8

Here is the link of Mazda's Rx-8 Hydro running with duel fuel system since 2004. They have been working on hydrogen since 1991.

Its in Japanese but it shows you how the hydro rotary works..'
YouTube - Mechanism of Rotary Engine

hvalley76 · 05-08-2008, 11:23 AM

Interesting topic guys. Unfortunately things aren't quite as simple as that article makes it seem. I will guarantee that the energy used by his radio wave device is more than the energy available in the hydrogen produced. By the laws of thermodynamics it has to be, and they've held up pretty good for the last couple hundred years.

That would be called an "overunity" reaction. A type of perpetual motion. People sure have been looking, but no ones found one yet. Hydrogen is not an energy source, its an energy carrier. The energy used in splitting it from water is always more than what you get back. Even a unity reaction (1:1) is impossible. There is always a loss (entropy). This is true of any physical reaction.

What you need to look at is getting free, clean energy to obtain the hydrogen(solar, wind, etc.) Google solar electrolysis, it can be done pretty cheaply on a small scale. I think the Dutch actually have some solar powered hydrogen refueling stations for the public.

And if we're talking about automotive uses, since you've gone through all that trouble to get your hydrogen, you'll want to use it as efficiently as possible. The rotary is sure alot better than a piston engine but still internal combustion is not the way to go. Fuel cells use the reverse of the electrolysis reaction to produce electricity. There are electric motors that can approach 90% efficiency. You also get the benefit of dynamic braking where the kinetic energy of the moving car is reclaimed instead of just being wasted as heat (the current brake pad system).

I didn't put this here to shoot anyone down or anything. I think about this kind of stuff all the time too when I'm buying $4/gal gas! The best things happen when everyone is throwing out ideas.

05-08-2008, 01:23 PM

yeah, i actually had thought of that hvalley. i thought it was interesting that salt water ignited though. none of this is gonna matter soon though, i'm gonna discover a way to farm entropy, i think i'm getting close

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

05-07-2008, 12:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
Gustov Guest Posts: n/a	that's pretty interesting. how long ago was that article written?

05-07-2008, 07:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
Thoris Guest Posts: n/a	i think almost a year ago, But last i heard the Big Oil companys bought his patent out.

05-07-2008, 10:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
cifex -LIFETIME MEMBER- Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 2,933	It does work. It has not been researched enough to know if enough energy can be generated in this fashion compared to the amount of energy it takes to run the RF Generator to be efficient. The current process of hydrolysis is only about 50% efficient. Though I don't think using radio waves would be efficient in any way since so much of the energy is lost and scattered out into the universe.

05-07-2008, 11:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Thoris Guest Posts: n/a	but I do think it's going toward the right direction, I mean come on if this guy can come up with this many other scientist can do it. I need to get to a laptop and I can show you guys a video on running a rotary rx-8 hydrogen car in japan. I honestly think hydro is the next fuel for the world. I really think hybrids are a fashion statement to say I care. Which in reality is as much of destrution of the enviormemt as using fossil fuels. I will edit when I get to a laptop, I wrote this on my itouch

05-08-2008, 09:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
Thoris Guest Posts: n/a	the other thing is what about the fricken batterys that go in a few years. Of how much waste that will create, its almost as mad as using fossil fuels

05-08-2008, 11:23 AM	#9 (permalink)
hvalley76 Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 64	Interesting topic guys. Unfortunately things aren't quite as simple as that article makes it seem. I will guarantee that the energy used by his radio wave device is more than the energy available in the hydrogen produced. By the laws of thermodynamics it has to be, and they've held up pretty good for the last couple hundred years. That would be called an "overunity" reaction. A type of perpetual motion. People sure have been looking, but no ones found one yet. Hydrogen is not an energy source, its an energy carrier. The energy used in splitting it from water is always more than what you get back. Even a unity reaction (1:1) is impossible. There is always a loss (entropy). This is true of any physical reaction. What you need to look at is getting free, clean energy to obtain the hydrogen(solar, wind, etc.) Google solar electrolysis, it can be done pretty cheaply on a small scale. I think the Dutch actually have some solar powered hydrogen refueling stations for the public. And if we're talking about automotive uses, since you've gone through all that trouble to get your hydrogen, you'll want to use it as efficiently as possible. The rotary is sure alot better than a piston engine but still internal combustion is not the way to go. Fuel cells use the reverse of the electrolysis reaction to produce electricity. There are electric motors that can approach 90% efficiency. You also get the benefit of dynamic braking where the kinetic energy of the moving car is reclaimed instead of just being wasted as heat (the current brake pad system). I didn't put this here to shoot anyone down or anything. I think about this kind of stuff all the time too when I'm buying $4/gal gas! The best things happen when everyone is throwing out ideas.

05-08-2008, 01:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gustov Guest Posts: n/a	yeah, i actually had thought of that hvalley. i thought it was interesting that salt water ignited though. none of this is gonna matter soon though, i'm gonna discover a way to farm entropy, i think i'm getting close