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post #1 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 07:44 PM
randyjohnson
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John McCain

John McCain plans to give the oil companies a huge tax break. He plans to give other rich people tax breaks too. Barack Obama plans to give tax breaks to the poor. The poor need the tax breaks. Not the rich.

Sarah Palin unlawfully fired a man because he refused to fire her ex brother-in-law as a state trooper. She abused her power and that's not a good quality for a potential Vice President to have.

Many people have lost their jobs because of this recession. If McCain wins, the recession will most likely continue and many more people will lose their jobs. You may or may not agree that McCain isn't a good choice. If you disagree and later have to go to the unemployment office, you will agree.

Obama wants to end the war. McCain wants to continue the war. Do you want this war to drag on for the next four to eight years? No, I don't believe that you do. Do you want to turn on your television and hear about more of our soldiers dying? No, you don't. A vote for McCain is a vote to continue the war and the recession.
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post #2 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 08:58 PM
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Quit spamming you cock nugget.

I have a word limit on my cynicism
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post #3 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 09:21 PM
kylebaz
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ya barack wants to give tax breaks to 95% of working americans... heres a news flash for you. 1 in 6 americans dont pay taxes and the 60% that do pay actuall taxes and the other 40% pay PAYROLL taxes. totally diff.
post #4 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebaz View Post
ya barack wants to give tax breaks to 95% of working americans... heres a news flash for you. 1 in 6 americans dont pay taxes and the 60% that do pay actuall taxes and the other 40% pay PAYROLL taxes. totally diff.
This makes no sense.

I'll assume you mean that 40% of people who pay tax, pay higher payroll tax than income tax.


Last edited by baldylox; 10-15-2008 at 10:28 PM.
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post #5 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 10:37 PM
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where are you getting these "figures" Kbaz?? out of your bum?? wats the source??
post #6 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 10:53 PM
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If he meant what I think he meant then the figure is pretty accurate. Except that the percentage that pay 0 or negative income tax is higher.

A quick google search gave me these numbers:


%37 pay 0 or negative income tax
%42 of taxpayers pay higher payroll tax(FICA) than income tax
%74 of taxpayers pay higher payroll tax than income tax if you include the portion paid by the employer as part of that figure, which it technically should be.


(payroll tax is about %15 btw)

I am assuming what he is pointing out is that since A LOT of FICA isnt really used for social security/medicare, the majority of that should be reclassified as income tax. Especially since FICA is capped for earners who make over 100K. So the real percentage paid to government for any type of tax for the middle class is actually quite a bit higher than for the wealthy. Obama and McCain when they talk about tax increases / cuts are only talking about income tax.

Bibliography:

Payroll tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Forgotten Payroll Tax - Gregory Bresiger - Mises Institute

Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes — The American, A Magazine of Ideas

Media Matters - O'Reilly's tax falsehoods: 50 percent "don't pay any federal income tax," estate tax "unconstitutional"


Last edited by baldylox; 10-15-2008 at 10:59 PM.
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post #7 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 11:58 PM
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Great researched, documented explanation.. thank you cifex.. quite interesting.
post #8 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
So let me see if I understand this correctly.

Income tax: is just that the federal withholding on wages.
Correct, for the largest tax bracket ($31,850-$77,100) You pay $4,386.25 plus 25% of the amount over 31,850


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Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Payroll tax: the total amount of money deducted from a paycheck to include federal withholding, FICA and Medicare?
Payroll tax is SS/Medicare only. You pay half, your employer pays the other half.

I'm going to use John Doe for example. John Doe makes 50K and works in a livery in NY.

For John Doe, the federal income tax would come to about 17.8% of his salary before adjustment/credits.

Payroll tax is 15.3% of John's salary. John pays 7.65% of it and his employer pays the other half. (Effectively means the cost to have John work at Dirty Meat Livery is 7.65% more)

So here is a breakdown of what John makes.

$50,000 (+$3500 the livery pays for John towards SocSec/Medicare also known as FICA)

-$8500 (17%) Federal Income Tax
-$3000 (6%) Social Security
-$700 (1.4%) Medicare
-$2500 (5%) NYS Income Tax
-$10 (Few Cents) NYS Unemployment Insurance / Disability Insurance

So all said and done. We add that together.

$14700 (29.42%) John pays to the Man
$12200 (24.4%) Of that is going to the Federal Government alone.

No lets just look at what John is paying to the Federal Government.

$8500 - Federal Income Tax
$7400 - Payroll Tax (John pays 3700, the Livery pays the other half)

At the end of the year, if John's rebate ends up being $1200, he falls in the category of those paying more for SS/Medicare than Federal Income.


Last edited by baldylox; 10-16-2008 at 09:58 AM.
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post #9 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 09:54 AM
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Now let's try something else.

John will work till he is 65. Let's say his lifetime salary average will be 60K. He started working when he was 18.

65-18 = 47 years contributing to FICA
At %15.30 (half unseen to John), that's $9180 a year.

47 x 9180 = $431460

John than retired at 65 and starts drawing $1200/month out of SS until he dies at 80.
He withdraws 216K total befire eating dirt.

Since FICA is capped for those over 100K and isn't really used for Social Security / Medicare. What the Federal Government is saying is that its OK for the middle class to support the poor and withering, but not OK for the uber-wealthy to support the middle class. With one hand they make it seem as though they are taking more money from them with the higher tax brackets and the other gives it right back because FICA is capped.


Last edited by baldylox; 10-16-2008 at 10:22 AM.
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post #10 of 90 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdsnowman View Post
And I really dont think that stuff trickles down to our level directly. Its all theoretical.
That is exactly the point! You think that because it never has! Trickle down DOES NOT WORK!!! Your candidate, the senior citizen...eh..excuse me, senior senator from Arizona supports trickle down theory.

Obama says "Fuck trickle down! Trickle up!"

Trix are for kids.

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