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Old 10-29-2008, 11:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Socialized Healthcare

What's wrong with it?

Cost of socialized health care compared to private.

facts:

Canada

Total expenditure on health per capita (Intl $, 2004): 3,173
Total expenditure on health as % of GDP (2004): 9.8


United States

Total expenditure on health per capita (Intl $, 2004): 6,096
Total expenditure on health as % of GDP (2004): 15.4


France

Total expenditure on health per capita (Intl $, 2004): 3,040
Total expenditure on health as % of GDP (2004): 10.5


United Kingdom

Total expenditure on health per capita (Intl $, 2004): 2,560
Total expenditure on health as % of GDP (2004): 8.1

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Old 10-29-2008, 05:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Being a Canadian, problems I see with our healthcare system would be longer wait times for certain operations and trying to retain and entice new doctors to stay here to practice instead of seeking more lucrative ventures down south.

Personally I think its the best in the world, growing up between the years of 12 to 17, I broke no less than 13 bones. Having spent quite a bit of time in the US, I have a pretty good idea how much that would have cost my mom. She supported 4 boys on a secretaries salary so you can imagine there wouldn't have been a whole lot left over for thousands of dollars in health insurance. I didn't even mention numurous hospital visits for stitches, doctor visits and general ailments that life throws at you. And I'm just talking about me, my brothers being both into rugby and football have each had their knees scoped numerous times, as well as injuries similar to mine. Knowing how we barely scraped by I can't imagine how much life would have sucked if I lived in the States. Can you say bankruptcy?

Its not perfect by any means, but for me I think its the best system in the world as I have yet to want for anything and most people I know would say the same thing.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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there is nothing wrong with a socialised health care system. such a system endeavours to provide a healthy community and thus work force and thus nation.

the problem lies in the form of 'health tourists' ie those from less wealthy nations, who have no or inferior health systems, who visit coutries with free health care with the deliberate agenda to 'become ill' and thus necessitate the provision of free health care without having contributed a penny to it thru tax monies.

the burden on the system exceeds both its finance and all other resources and the system breaks down for everyone.

when growing up in a small-ish west country town, the health given to me and my family was exceptional.... in fact it remains impeccable to this day for certain 'long term ill' relatives of mine. in london however, it is over stretched and ineffective.

consequently, to gain the adequate degree of attention, you need to queue in practice waiting rooms, make constant appointments and scream and shout to get noticed. let's face it, the amount of fuss made is often proportional to the serverity of the ailment being suffered. but then unemployed bludgers are affordedmore time to such ends than those trying to get on with life....

in short, socialised health care is excellent, but is vulnerable to cheats
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdsnowman View Post
Why wait in line...and ..AND if ur really sick why waite six months to a year for a catscan??? many die before they even get a chance for treatment that way.
as is the MPD way, you are applying your own life's experiences to an all encompassing issue.

you have the provision to pay for your preferred health care option, but not everybody does.

and besides, if choice is such a vital facility for you, then you would presumably prefer the installation of a publicly funded care system; because then you have a choice of going to public hospitals or private ones!

but then you might argue that it is not fair that you are obliged to pay out twice. well death and taxes and all that..... not everybody who pays taxes have kids in school or use the local library or generate as much rubbish.... but that is the cost of a modern soceity.

social health = improved population health for ALL. simple.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Your forgetting everything other than ideal circumstances. When you have medical needs that come to 5 or 10K/month is when they start getting tight. They won't refuse treatment, but they will give you the cheapest shittiest treatment available. They are obligated to keep you alive...not to improve your quality of life. Nobody was suggesting hospitals are going to withhold a few CCs of Cefazolin to get rid of your sniffles...
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdsnowman View Post
I like a private system. I belive you get better total care than with a socialist system. Sure you have to pay for health insurance. but you pay for it in a socialist system as well. Its called taxes. Canada for example has a 50% tax. why so high?? because that includes medical.
Your information is incorrect.

Tax Rates of the US compared to Canada:

Canada

15-29% (federal)

4-17.95% (provincial)

No Payroll Tax

United States:

0-35% (federal)
0-10.3% (state)

Payroll Tax

15.3% (federal)

Canadian tax system includes excellent public schooling, health care and 66% post secondary tuition. Overall taxes may be slightly lower in teh US, but we get much better value for our tax dollar.


Quote:
My point being you pay for it anyway. Nothing is free so you might as well have total control. Plus the medical profession doesnt like the socialist way..Proof is in the pudding. Take a look at the doctors who come from Canada to practice here in the US.

Why wait in line...and ..AND if ur really sick why waite six months to a year for a catscan??? many die before they even get a chance for treatment that way.
Please point to your sources of people that have waited six months for a ncessary cat scan, and especially those that have died while waiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdsnowman View Post
And one other thing. If Obi ever does get the chance for a socialist society of medical coverage then he will fuck it up big time. Reason being you cant behead a monster that has been around for ever... you cant. The Medical profession will stomp any effort he has out quickly. They are more powerfull than the govt is and if you think they want obi and company paying them based on what THEY think??/

Welcome to reality obi...they (including the prescription drug industry) will tell you to fuck off

Example:

Dr. Wolfie makes 3 million dollars a year as a private physician. He has over 25 years experience, a well documented and well respected physician. Do u think he is going to settle for $25.00 for each doctor visit, $200.00 for each surgury he performs, $175 per baby delivered??? no way in hell.

Dr. Wolfie stands to loose 40- 60% of his annual income if he allows a government to pay him for services he has been getting paid by the private system for years.
Again, where do you get your numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdsnowman View Post
Ok Im gonna put this to bed here. True, not everyone can afford and does have health insurance. Many adults go without it...HOWEVER that does NOT mean they will get refused treatment and if they truly do not have any money to pay for it then there are many programs available where that debt gets settled. In New York State all children are covered under the " Child Health Plus" program. It is a minimal or non existant fee if you qualify(meaning you dont make enought or have health insurance). Again ALL CHILDREN ARE COVERED!

Every American can walk into their doctors and get treatment. A doctors office visit is $50.00, prescriptions can be another $40.00(all without insurance). Now if you dont have the money they will bill you and as long as you make some effort of payment they work with you. Why can they do this?? because its a private system.

If you truly are homeless guess who pays then... I do! In the form of health insurance cost raises. Again even homeless get medical treatment.

Bottom line is just because you dont have Health insurance doesnt mean you get left out in the cold. Ironically its the Canadians left out in the cold when they have to wait six months for a catscan or three hours for a common cold. That dont happen over here and it has nothing to do with weather you have health coverage or not.
People shouldn't be going to a doctor for a common cold, that is what makes the Canadian system slow down.

Also explain, if the private system is so efficiant, why is it the most expensive health care system in the world?
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I really doubt he is going to come up with those numbers...

They don't really exist. I am sure if you dig enough you can find an example. I am also sure if you dig, you can find plenty of examples where the current system has failed.

Yes, there are somethings that you might have to wait for that suck but are not life threatening. Say that MRI for your blown out ACL, but not for life threatening issues...
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killclimbz View Post
I really doubt he is going to come up with those numbers...

They don't really exist. I am sure if you dig enough you can find an example. I am also sure if you dig, you can find plenty of examples where the current system has failed.

Yes, there are somethings that you might have to wait for that suck but are not life threatening. Say that MRI for your blown out ACL, but not for life threatening issues...
When our system fails someone, we complain the loudest, and we have every right to when it is funded by taxpayer money.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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For sure. And by the current system, I mean the current American system...
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