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Old 11-20-2008, 11:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Auto Industry Bailout

With all this old talk about Palin, religion, republicans and democrats, I thought I'd try to start up a fun debate about the current US Auto industry and the bailout. As of last night, congress opposed the 25 billion dollar bailout plan. The republicans are the ones blocking the bailout, but I gotta say, I don't blame them. These companies had the chance and blew it, producing gas guzzling SUVs instead of pumping more money into hybrids, electric cars, etc... So why should they get a bailout when they acted irresponsibly. And the damn CEO's take private jets to DC to plead their case?? I actually heard some dick say that it isn't their models that is the problem... huh? People aren't buying your cars because 15 mpg isn't all that attractive any more. These companies have acted irresponsibly, I'm not sure why they should have tax dollars wipe their ass.

On the other hand, I understand that a bailout will help thousands of jobs and keep an industry in the US that NEEDS to stay. It would be nice to see a government loan with stipulations put on these guys. I think looking back at what Roosevelt did, may be a good start.
 
Old 11-20-2008, 11:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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so the US is a socialist nation afterall.......? (to the rich)

but yeah, their state of affairs is everything to do with international economic upheaval and not at all related to profound and sustined mismanagement.... oh bruvva!
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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wait a minute....

they OPPOSED the plea for bailout!!?

is this the hallowed and much vaunted 'change' we have been hearing about, already!!?
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Echoing your sentiments Slimp, there is no point in pouring more money into a failing business without stipulations put forth that will prevent having to have a future bailout. If you look at it from a strictly capitalistic point of view, if the business couldn't succeed, then it's not competitive enough and thus should go the way of any other failed businesses. Especially when the writing has been on the wall for years, even before the move to hybrids and more fuel efficient cars, people were not buying domestic anymore because the cars are shit compared to any Toyota, Volkswagen or Honda. There is a reason foreign sales have been going up for a long time, they had ample time to address it and now they're looking for a handout with no guarantee this won't happen again.

On the other side, I don't understand economics but I've seen examples of whole communities failing because of a plant closing which will translate into heavier reliance on social assistance programs, increase in crime rates and probably more foreclosures given how close to the edge most people are in the States. None of that will be good for the economy, just look at the town of Flint,Michigan. (And forget Michael Moore making a movie about it)

Stipulations and an incremental bailout based on meeting those stipulations makes sense to me, but again I have only a small insight into Economic theory, so what do I know?
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Paolo... I'm assuming your were joking. The new president can't do anything yet, it's the Bush administration that's opposing it. But that doesn't mean opposing it is bad. Get the right kind of bail out plan. If the US wants to keep their auto industry, then GM, Ford and Chrysler need to step it up. They should have done that 20 years ago.

The biggest problem will be that it could very well send the US further in to a recession, and the ripples will be felt world wide. The US is a huge consumer, if more jobs are lost, then it will only spiral downward, cause more jobs in retail and other industry to lay off even further.

I truly hope that we don't hand over a blank check to these assholes who fly private jets to go plea for money. A bail out with stipulations may force GM, Ford and Chrysler to actually be competitive in a world market, that will help the US auto worker and the US economy.
 
Old 11-20-2008, 04:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is
> awash with half-truths and misrepresentations that are
> endlessly repeated by everyone from members of Congress to
> journalists. Here are six myths about the companies and
> their vehicles, and the reality in each case.
>
> Myth No. 1
> Nobody buys their vehicles.
>
> Reality
>
> General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold
> 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and
> millions more around the world. GM outsold Toyota by about
> 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and
> holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far this
> year. Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest
> automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about
> 3,000 more than Toyota.
>
> Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than
> 1.3 million vehicles in the United States last year.
>
> Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai
> combined in 2007 and so far this year.
>
> Myth No. 2
> They build unreliable junk.
>
> Reality
>
> The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are
> long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that
> "Ford's reliability is now on par with good
> Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power
> Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet,
> Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall
> quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW,
> Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
>
> Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality
> midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better
> than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.
>
> Myth No. 3
> They build gas-guzzlers.
>
> Reality
>
> All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the
> Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per
> gallon on the highway. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet
> Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than
> the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus
> has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most
> efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet
> Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway
> fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic.
> A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo
> subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate.
>
> Myth No. 4
> They already got a $25-billion bailout.
>
> Reality
>
> None of that money has been lent out and may not be for
> more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only
> to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no
> effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face
> because of the economic slowdown that's killing them
> now.
>
> Myth No. 5
> GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups
> and SUVs.
>
> Reality
>
> The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy,
> but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent
> billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a
> large and historically profitable part of the auto industry.
> The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and
> Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than
> Toyota and Nissan's full-size pickups.
>
> Myth No. 6
> They don't build hybrids.
>
> Reality
>
> The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but
> Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or
> Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.
>
> 6 myths about the Detroit 3 | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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^^^Well then, the debunked myths simply means that the CEO and top executives of the top 3 US automakers are complete idiot and too incompetent to run a business. All that positive stuff and yet they're beggin for tax dollars.
 
Old 11-20-2008, 05:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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YES
and when they show up in private jets also!
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe View Post
so the US is a socialist nation afterall.......? (to the rich)

but yeah, their state of affairs is everything to do with international economic upheaval and not at all related to profound and sustined mismanagement.... oh bruvva!
Viva Comrade Obama! Comrade Obama will not let the People's Kar Kompany fail!
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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let them all fail!!!
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