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slimpanzee 11-25-2008 10:41 AM

Chavez setting oil band price
The Seattle Times: Business & technology: Stock market | Seattle Times Newspaper

I read this article this morning and found it to interesting. Chavez wants to keep the price per barrel somewhere between 80 to 100 dollars a barrel, stating that's a fair price for oil, and that it will help "stabilize" the world economy. Who's that a fair price too? The super rich oil people, or to the working class trying to make it in the world?

The other thing I thought was bullshit, is that Venezuela's govt had put in place the next year's budget, based on $60 per barrel. Oil is 94% of Venezuela's exports and is half of it's budget. If oil dips below $60 a barrel on average, then their budget is screwed. No wonder Chavez wants a band.

Just another reason to want to stop using oil. Rich fuckers like this get their way because they group up with other rich fuckers and set the price. But that price won't be able to stay high if nobody buys it at it's high price.

PaoloSmythe 11-25-2008 10:50 AM

if you want to be concerned about rich oil fuckers.... be concerned by those to your north mr slimp.

have you any idea of the environmental expenses let alone the energetic requirements of acquiring crude from oil sands? i was quite surprised.

slimpanzee 11-25-2008 11:08 AM

^^^Got any links. I'm curious as to what you're talking about.

However, my point was just another nail in the coffin. I truly hope that more and more people jump on the band wagon and start consuming less oil. Whether is bicycling, walking, mass transit, driving less, hybrid, electric cars, scooter, motorcycling more, making your home more efficient... what ever it is, I hope more people stick to it, rather than let a group of super rich people set a ridiculous price so they can continue to make record profits in the billions, while middle class continues to get squeezed.

Perpetual3am 11-25-2008 11:31 AM

Yeah, the oil sands industry is wreaking havoc on the environment, I have a few family members that work there and its pretty sad to hear about the environmental devestation. I think that most Canadians aren't aware of just how poor our track record is on the environment.

Here's an article to give you some background Slimp:

Energy potential of Alberta's oil sands places Canada in a ecological dilemma | Environment | The Guardian

Fort McMurray is the place to be if you want to make some amazing cash, of course you have to be able to find a place to live when you're there. I have a cousin who just came back, he's a cabinet maker and was making almost $1000 a day. So many high paying jobs out there, just have to find ways of avoiding the high cost of living.

PaoloSmythe 11-25-2008 11:47 AM

mr slimp - i have no links which come immediately to mind, so take this for what it is....

i had cause to speculatively research a job opportunity and looked into oil sands mining a bit more, for personal ethical reasons. i didn't sit easily with what i found.

oil sands are of interest for the bitumen they hold. the extraction of this material is done thru two methods; if the resource is relatively shallow, then a massive and sprawling open mine is cut; much like a quarry; obvious deforestation and water re-routing.

deeper seams are twin shafted, with blasts of high pressured water steam being used to fragment the sands into a pit, into which the liquified bitumen can be 'skimmed' from the sludge, extracted and then refined. all of this requires tremendous amounts of water, which is then deposited carefully to avoid widespread and uncontrollable pollution; by forming huge, lifeless black lakes. the lesser of two evils.

this extraction and refining of course is energetically expensive and is dependent upon the consumption of natural gas supplies. but the gas to oil ratio is deemed enuff to be economically viable. not much gas left for export tho; and massive infrastructure is built on site for the refinery facilities.

the loss of landscapes (which will topogrpahically never be the same, but will repopulate) is temporary, but the potential for hydrological disturbance is considerable and pronounced.

i believe i recall (but it seems too low to be true) that for each barrel of crude produced, it uses 4 barrels of fresh water. with canada possessing the second largest oil reserve in the world (exceeded only by saudi arabia) they are gonna need a lot of water!

and of course the oil corps only lease sections of the oil fields from the province. 'the land returns to the people'.... but will they want it?

the potential litigation, regarding the acceptable condition being returned at the end of the lease term agreement, and enforcing such acceptable standards is an endless battle far from even being started, let alone concluded.

but maybe i worry too much?

PaoloSmythe 11-25-2008 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by mpdsnowman (Post 85462)
Most oil companies want people to be in the mindset of "fillup the tank" or "fill up the tank when half full" Reason being is that is how they truly make money.

for truth!

in this age of fuel efficiency, we are told to empty our boots ('trunks' to some). obviously carrying around tons of useless shit in your car, will cause it to burn more fuel when driving it around. travel light, burn less.

so how heavy do you suppose a full tank of petrol is? exactly.

slimpanzee 11-25-2008 11:55 AM

Not sure how much that actually conserves, and I suppose it's doing something. Personally, I conserve by riding the train in to work, instead of driving. I carpool up to the mountain with 4 to 6 other adults. I carpool to our soccer games. Drive my wife's car more often when going to the store and stuff like that. In general, I just try NOT to use gas.

What I am excited to see, is the electric car making a comeback. I HOPE that it continues interest and that 5 to 10 years from now, we'll be lightyears ahead in it's technology and more of them will be on the road, making a HUGE reduction in oil consumption.

Apparently the direction of "Who killed the electric car", is working on a new movie called, "Revenge of the Electric Car". However, it depends on how it goes in the next couple of years, but he's researching it right now.

slimpanzee 11-25-2008 12:05 PM

I'm going to fill my car with a lot of helium balloons to make it lighter. Or screw that, I'm just going to pump a lot of helium INTO the car... cooooool.

slimpanzee 11-25-2008 12:43 PM

I wasn't saying it didn't conserve, I just am not sure of "how much", and stated that it may do something. However, since you drive approximately 63k miles a year, you are well and above the average driver, considering the average is something like 12 to 15k. So, even though your methods may help a bit, is there another way you could reduce? I'm willing to be yes, yet that would probably mean adjusting some things around and making your commutes slightly less desirable. Which is what many Americans claim. They adjust their thinking so that they don't have to put in a little extra work. I'm guessin' your conservation methods conserves very little in comparison to the amount you actually use.

Shit man... 63k a year is a lot. Just your personal miles is over the average. Maybe cut out some of those long trips and stay closer to home?? And maybe looking in to the electric car for commuting purposes would suit you well.

slimpanzee 11-25-2008 01:52 PM

I'm not sold on those smart cars. For the size they are, I feel like they should get more per gallon. Still pretty cool, though. If you haven't checked out the electric cars, check out the Zap Crossover. It's a good looking car, pure electric all wheel drive SUV that gets over 200 miles per charge and goes 0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds. Tesla makes a roadster which is super expensive, but they're in the works to produce an affordable electric sedan. One that most people have heard about is the Chevy Volt, which is a plug in hybrid. 40 miles per charge, then a gas engine kicks in and charges the battery extending your range. It works out to something like 150 mpg... but they're 40 grand and a smart car is more like 10k I believe. So getting an electric car isn't really a "savings" thing, but rather you just wanted to reduce your oil consumption completely.

I fully agree about your home. I live in an area that gets 75% of it's energy from a hydro electric damn. However, I still conserve as much as I can. CF bulbs, thermostat at 68, sealing up any leaks, putting proper insulation in your home, turning lights OFF, etc... helps a lot.

I also like taking the train because it helps reduce traffic. And in Seattle, that's a big deal. We have some of the worst traffic problems in the US. And we can't really solve it with more roads because we have too many water ways around us.

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