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Old 02-04-2013, 06:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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What a shame. And I agree with whoever said the way it works on MTBR forum. They have a subsection dedicated for almost every brand and when I'm looking for a new DH bike those sections are invaluable to do research and see if I want a new Transition or Giant. Flip that over to snowboarding and people can do the same for NS or Burton. Its a win win situation. So one guy loses his google ranking, so what? Please move forward
I know nothing of this MTBR forum but this seems to be an incredibly lucid statement 'round these parts.

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Old 02-04-2013, 06:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't what the the fuck is going one here with all this, but there is a difference between having a dedicated brand review section and having a team of forum members getting free product for review to post up in that section.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I don't what the the fuck is going one here with all this, but there is a difference between having a dedicated brand review section and having a team of forum members getting free product for review to post up in that section.
I don't know of any reviewers that have to pay for the product they're sent to review. None. Furthermore, most if not all of those reviewers get free shiz through their main line of work anyways, none of them needed NS to give them freebies.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse about this because that's just going to get this thread locked and people banned but the epic amount of anal pain generated by this is sad.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm not going to beat a dead horse about this because that's just going to get this thread locked and people banned but the epic amount of anal pain generated by this is sad.
Everyone gotta remember that stuff comes over so heavy in words, nobody rides as hard as they do on the interwebz.

I see no reason that a brand sub-forum couldnt be easily flushed out even with some old content. Seems like a hiccup that will be fine if everyone will just realize that hiccups do not cause death or the end of snow-type-weather.

I'll put down some Volcom outerwear reviews, 32 boots, electric vz and smith gogs, burton k2 and ride bindings, bataleon, all the shit I've destroyed for the last couple hundred days.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Where did the new Neversummer review threads go?

What incentive does a company have to jump on board this forum? Duh, you said we should have waited until other companies joined. Well, don't you think they're more inclined to hop on if they see another brand doing it successfully?

NS was able to jump on easily because of the preexisting popularity of their brand here.


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Old 02-04-2013, 07:27 PM   #26 (permalink)
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To Nivek's point I don't really know WTF is going on here and the amount of drama I saw late last week frankly was mind-boggling and something I haven't seen on this forum but rarely -- and Sabato you and I discussed this briefly on Saturday -- the problem was in the perception. And then of course the magic passions of internet butthurt magnifies this and completely blinds people to reason.


I knew about this several weeks ago because I ride with Leo and talk to him all the time, so this design team thing was no secret to me -- yet I FULLY understand why the timing/presentation/etc. could give the appearance of impropriety and/or impartiality.

My day job is customer satisfaction research for a company you have all heard of. Our research is impartial and independent and we take great pains to ensure this. But the #1 question I get from people who don't know my line of work is always about companies greasing the wheels, paying for promotion, buying a certain score/rank, etc. I don't know why people are skeptical like this, but they ARE and the blunders/mistakes/miscommunications all center around the appearance of playing favorites, impartiality, etc.


It's really a great concept and it's too bad that the delivery/presentation went sideways like it did. I hope the forum can recover and involve more brands in this sort of venture in the future -- but if this NS debacle is any indication, I'm not holding my breath for that.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:34 PM   #27 (permalink)
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To Nivek's point I don't really know WTF is going on here and the amount of drama I saw late last week frankly was mind-boggling and something I haven't seen on this forum but rarely -- and Sabato you and I discussed this briefly on Saturday -- the problem was in the perception. And then of course the magic passions of internet butthurt magnifies this and completely blinds people to reason.


I knew about this several weeks ago because I ride with Leo and talk to him all the time, so this design team thing was no secret to me -- yet I FULLY understand why the timing/presentation/etc. could give the appearance of impropriety and/or impartiality.

My day job is customer satisfaction research for a company you have all heard of. Our research is impartial and independent and we take great pains to ensure this. But the #1 question I get from people who don't know my line of work is always about companies greasing the wheels, paying for promotion, buying a certain score/rank, etc. I don't know why people are skeptical like this, but they ARE and the blunders/mistakes/miscommunications all center around the appearance of playing favorites, impartiality, etc.


It's really a great concept and it's too bad that the delivery/presentation went sideways like it did. I hope the forum can recover and involve more brands in this sort of venture in the future -- but if this NS debacle is any indication, I'm not holding my breath for that.
Yeah, I actually knew about it too and didn't think much about it. Like you said and like we've talked about, they way it came out...man. Perfect storm of unfortunate events. I actually told Leo (or Lori..?) that I can see where people would be uneasy about this, ESPECIALLY how it was perceived at first but I really expected people to give snowolf the benefit of the doubt once he tried to explain exactly what happened and why things went the way they did.

It never happened though and maybe those of us that were cool with it should have been more vocal at the time, so it didn't seem like the whole forum was in revolt about it...? Who knows.

I just really hated seeing people turn on each other over a stupid ass board. (NS love notwithstanding) and I hated seeing snowolf's (and Leo etc) credibility maligned over and over.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I think pulling away from the site due to the negative comments of a predictably vocal minority would be a bad idea. It would be akin to making the entire community suffer because the people who voiced those opinions did so in a particular way, and I don't think you would want to do that given the high regard in which you are held on here. Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to write what they want in the appropriate manner, but I believe the majority of the people on here welcomed the Neversummer sub-forum idea and that should be the guiding factor in determining how to proceed.

What you have to understand is with wolfie there is no ulterior motive. He truly has a passion for the sport, for teaching, for helping. He is a top notch dude who truly gets satisfaction out of helping others. His passion for this and the sport as a whole is nothing short of amazing and admirable.

A guy can only take so much before it takes a personal toll on him ( Maybe his threshold is low, maybe it's not- that's not really the point). The point is when it starts to effect the passion, and others who benefit from that passion, it's time to take a step back and I believe that's where wolfie is at.

It is a very sad thing and a huge loss, and from just reading this thread I think most are already feeling the loss.

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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It never happened though and maybe those of us that were cool with it should have been more vocal at the time, so it didn't seem like the whole forum was in revolt about it...? Who knows.
You're right dude. I thought about chiming in but basically I didn't have a dog in the fight - I don't get boards, I beg borrow and steal for demo opportunites - and skipping work to go snowboaridng was more important than getting in an e-Dick swinging contest on the internet I figured it would just blow over and fix itself. Not claiming I could've prevented this shitstorm, but you've got a point that *maybe* with a few other people chiming in it would'vve gone differently.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:27 PM   #30 (permalink)
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No, the biggest problem was a forum member took it upon himself to leak this before we ( me, Killclimbz, the mod team and Vince) had a chance to all talk and present it. Once that happened, it was presented in the least bad way possible under circumstances that forced my hand without guidance or consensus. You people need to take responsibility for being as much a part of the problem as we were. You are the reason it was not given a chance to work!

As for my actions, I let that thread go on a long time. When it became rinse and repeat it got locked. Keep in mind even Donutz had had enough and threatened the ban hammer too and he is much nicer than me. You guys pushed the issue until something had to give and it did.

And you're right! I and at least 4 others from the team won't be providing this site reviews and I am disinclined to offer my help in the coaching and instruction section anytime soon either; you people burned your bridge with me. I get paid to coach at the resort and I love what I do there. I don't need to do it here for free for people who are going to turn around and stab me in the back and attack my integrity over what was a good intent.
Just wanted to point this out; I am not interested in getting involved with the current state of things but feel it's important to mention:

I happened to be on the forum when the OG NSDT introductory thread was first posted clearly on the Active Topics page. I believed it to be authored by Vman, as it had such things in it like, "(anything else to add here, Scott?)" and seemed to be more of a private rough draft than completed intro, which I found to be odd. Days later it appeared to be revised and completed by you, Snowolf. It was cleaned up and edited to reflect more of an official intro.

It may have been leaked by a forum member, but not binarypie or anyone not affiliated with the NSDT as thought.

If it was a mistake by Vman or a glitch, that's one thing. But it wasn't leaked by anyone else not involved. At least not the way it came across when I first saw it.

Edit: I can't help but think I was the only one, as the thread had around 20-30 views but no replies.

Last edited by EatRideSleep; 02-04-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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