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Old 03-23-2009, 01:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
RVM
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Default Tweaked knee due to stance

So I'm somewhat certain that yesterday I acquired, at the very least, a 1st degree sprain to my right (rear leg)MCL. I also think I might have a torn medial meniscus. I should be heading to the doctor's office today.

Last year, at the exact same mountain, almost exactly a year ago (March 16, 2008) I damaged my right MCL with a level 1-2 sprain. They only took xrays, however, and I'm wondering if I may have torn my medial meniscus then too. Sucks eh? I'm not superstitious, but I sure as hell am not going back to that mountain (Sugar Bowl) again no matter how cheap their lift tickets get.

Anyway, I have a couple of questions:

Anyone ever had major knee problems and still been able to ride hard?

Anyone know how possible it is this is related to my duck stance? I ride 21" wide, +21/-18 (my feet naturally duck out quite a bit - this is the most neutral and stable stance for me). From the little I've read concerning duck and the possibility of damage, it seems like I've done exactly what is usually described. My board suck into really deep powder and hit a frozen rut. It stopped almost immediately, throwing my body forward and twisting my knee inward hard. I felt a huge "POP" and went down.

Anyway, since this is the second time I've had an injury to this location on my knee, and since both times I was riding duck, and since both injuries occurred in a manner consistent with what I've read describing the type of injury that can be caused by duck, I'm thinking about trying forward stance (next season anyway - I think my year is done).

Since I ride with my feet ducked about 30 degrees, if I try a forward stance, should I more or less move my bindings closer to an alpine stance, say, something like +50, -30, or go for a more forward stance with something like +30, 0?

Click here for an article on duck stance and injuries.

I know the majority of pros and amateurs alike now ride duck, and that's cool. I'm just starting to think that maybe, due to my own personal biomechanics, that it may not be for me. I really liked riding switch duck too.

This fucking sucks.

Last edited by RVM; 03-23-2009 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 03-23-2009, 01:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Are you trying to point your knee forward while riding duck?
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not sure what you are doing, but you angles are awfully tweaked out there. I ride +-15. +21 -18 sounds awfully turned out to me and probably helps your propensity to injury. You might try dialing it back a bit and see how it rides for you. Maybe +18 -15 or something. Your stance doesn't look like it's too wide, I think your angles might be what is tweaking you out. For some people those might be fine angles to use, but for others, me included, the stress on the joints might be a bit much. Time to make some adjustments I would say.
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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-18 is way tweaked man, no wonder you got hurt, i ride duck, and ive always considered myself to be pretty tweaked as far as ducked goes, im at +15 -15 and I'm regular. Back in high school I wrestled, and blew out both of my miniscises in my knees, and if my binding arnt exactly +15 -15 my knees absolutely kill me, you just have to be careful with duck that when your bailing you dont put your body in a awkward position where your knee is taking the damage.
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm fine at +18 / -18, but then again I've had knee problems since I was around 18 or so.
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hell no that would hurt like hell. lol

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Are you trying to point your knee forward while riding duck?
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hell no that would hurt like hell. lol
You would be surprised how many people do it.
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I can't go any less than +-15, and at that angle I can feel my ankles and knees under a bit of strain any time I have to bend my knees more than a little. At 15,-15 my knees will bend almost straight ahead, not over my feet. Anything less than 15,-15 and my knees start to bend inwards. Also, the ankles and outside calves really start to hurt (burn - only the tiny tiny outside calf muscle is being used if I go smaller) at 15,-15 or smaller after only a few minutes of riding. I know my calves are in great shape because I do calf presses on a Hammer Strength leg press machine using over 750 lbs. I've maxxed out 1500 lbs on my calves before.

My normal stance, when just standing upright, has both my feet ducked out like 45 degrees. I'm sitting in my chair now, knees pointed straight ahead, and my feet naturally fall at about +-45 degrees. If I turn them in to 0,0 and let the outside of my feet rest on the floor, the inside of my feet will be an inch or so high (it would look like this from straight ahead: /\, though obviously not as extreme) I think this is called pronation. Hell it might be supination I don't remember which is which.

Speaking of duck, I can actually turn my feet to about 110, -110 without straining much. If I want to really twist it up I can turn them to what would be equivalent to about 120, -120. Yes, they are pointing almost backwards. In college my yoga instructor told me I should have done ballet.

I won't be able to make adjustments this year no matter what.

I'm sure I'll be referred to an orthopaedic doctor so I'll ask about it.


*edit*

Looking at my feet when seated, they may not be quite +-45, but rather closer to +-30ish, with knees straight ahead and feet resting flat on the floor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by killclimbz View Post
Not sure what you are doing, but you angles are awfully tweaked out there. I ride +-15. +21 -18 sounds awfully turned out to me and probably helps your propensity to injury. You might try dialing it back a bit and see how it rides for you. Maybe +18 -15 or something. Your stance doesn't look like it's too wide, I think your angles might be what is tweaking you out. For some people those might be fine angles to use, but for others, me included, the stress on the joints might be a bit much. Time to make some adjustments I would say.

Last edited by RVM; 03-23-2009 at 05:00 PM. Reason: changed some stuff
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well if it's doing your MCL in, I'd say your body is trying to tell you what you got now ain't working. Bummer you're done for the season. I would certainly play with it. At zero you should be in a neutral standing forward stance. Not saying that it's better but you can certainly play with you angles. Take a few runs and adjust accordingly.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It's not your stance its your alignment. Every pain you're describing is coming from the lack of foot support in the boot. Your angles and stance width are fine. The issue's you're describing are coming from your stance alignment in the boot being off. You're rolling your foot outward too much and its straining the knees.

Go see a ski boot fitting specialist that understands how to make a arch support for someone with your issues. My guess is he'll recommend canting the footbed. It'll feel completely weird when you walk but the second you strap in on snow you'll be like this is money. The other thing is your knees are weak get your ass on a stationary bike and build them up with low impact work outs. Third its not sugarbowl its you.
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