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Old 03-26-2009, 01:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
d-prostylee
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156 will have less pop for you, most people dont understand but the 156 is going to be stiffer then the 151 because it is meant for a heavier rider. the 156 will be faster and more stable, while the 151 will have more control, more pop, less swing weight.
I agree with everything except the comment about stiffness.

less stiffness = easier to press
less stiffness /= more pop (does not equal more pop)
less stiffness /= bigger ollies

the greater the stiffness = the greater the pop

The stiffness basically means the materials tendency to want to return to its normal resting state (aka flat). That coupled with the pressure you put to bend it creates the "pop" when you begin to release that pressure.

If less stiff meant more pop and easier to ollie - I'd say strap your feet onto a foam noodle (the ones that people use in swimming pools). That has no stiffness whatsoever...you should be able to ollie like a fiend with that foam noodle.

Granted if something was so stiff it couldn't be bent like oh say a refrigerator...they're be no hope at all to ollie with it since it had no give/play whatsoever.

Some other examples of this tension/release concept are a diving board, trampoline, rubber band, sling-shot.

The stiffness of the diving plus your ability to put pressure and bend the diving will spring you as you release that pressure on the diving board.

Think about what creates the "snap" (aka pop) of a rubber band, trampoline, sling-shot

Techinically if you had the strength to press a Burton Custom X - that would give you insane pop. I don't like the Custom X b/c I think they are too stiff but they are meant to be more of a freeride board to begin with. That stiffness helps prevent "chatter" at high speeds - which you will def notice with the regular Custom.

I actually know a few people (including some of the guys who run the local shop near me) who use a Custom X (which is I believe 7 [out of 10] on Burton's stiffness factor) for a freestyle board after spending some serious time breaking it in. The Custom is a 5 on stiffness in Burton's scale.

Lastly, if you've ridden the same board for several seasons you'll notice it starts to "go flat". Basically it loses it's stiffness over time from constant pressing/ollie-ing/riding and eventually loses its pop and you have to buy a new board. Every board does this - that's why some people like to buy their boards stiff to begin with so they "last longer" or so they say.

I talk waay too much...sorry
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:37 AM   #12 (permalink)
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not reading that lol because i am pretty sure i already know what you are talking about but i do know that you are right. but if they board is out of your weight class then you cannot effectively use the pop, so for him the 156 would have less pop because you need more weight to make it pop, where as the 151 is designed for his weight and he can get it to pop easier.
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:32 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by d-prostylee View Post
I agree with everything except the comment about stiffness.

less stiffness = easier to press
less stiffness /= more pop (does not equal more pop)
less stiffness /= bigger ollies

the greater the stiffness = the greater the pop

The stiffness basically means the materials tendency to want to return to its normal resting state (aka flat). That coupled with the pressure you put to bend it creates the "pop" when you begin to release that pressure.

If less stiff meant more pop and easier to ollie - I'd say strap your feet onto a foam noodle (the ones that people use in swimming pools). That has no stiffness whatsoever...you should be able to ollie like a fiend with that foam noodle.

Granted if something was so stiff it couldn't be bent like oh say a refrigerator...they're be no hope at all to ollie with it since it had no give/play whatsoever.

Some other examples of this tension/release concept are a diving board, trampoline, rubber band, sling-shot.

The stiffness of the diving plus your ability to put pressure and bend the diving will spring you as you release that pressure on the diving board.

Think about what creates the "snap" (aka pop) of a rubber band, trampoline, sling-shot

Techinically if you had the strength to press a Burton Custom X - that would give you insane pop. I don't like the Custom X b/c I think they are too stiff but they are meant to be more of a freeride board to begin with. That stiffness helps prevent "chatter" at high speeds - which you will def notice with the regular Custom.

I actually know a few people (including some of the guys who run the local shop near me) who use a Custom X (which is I believe 7 [out of 10] on Burton's stiffness factor) for a freestyle board after spending some serious time breaking it in. The Custom is a 5 on stiffness in Burton's scale.

Lastly, if you've ridden the same board for several seasons you'll notice it starts to "go flat". Basically it loses it's stiffness over time from constant pressing/ollie-ing/riding and eventually loses its pop and you have to buy a new board. Every board does this - that's why some people like to buy their boards stiff to begin with so they "last longer" or so they say.

I talk waay too much...sorry

I actually do like this kind of in depth answers.. lol makes it easier to understand the whole concept.
I think I understood what you trying to say about the relationship between the length & pop

so according to your explanation, the difficulty I was facing of doing ollie may be just the lack of my leg strength plus the lack of experience. right?!

so in general, how fast the speed would justify the extra 5cm?? I'm asking becoz I doubt 95% of my riding would even go that fast to notice the "high-speed" chatter..
or maybe becoz I was riding a 156cm... so 99% time I would not even notice the chatter since it's so stable..
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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not reading that lol because i am pretty sure i already know what you are talking about but i do know that you are right. but if they board is out of your weight class then you cannot effectively use the pop, so for him the 156 would have less pop because you need more weight to make it pop, where as the 151 is designed for his weight and he can get it to pop easier.

I also think your point is solid since 156cm board is on the long side of my wt, and 151 might be a lot more fun than 156 except going fast downhill. (but just how fast do I need to go will I notice the chatter difference between 156 vs 151??)

I'm really into the theory behind the equipments, and that's why I'm even thinking to get a 5cm shorter custom (or NS SL-R 151cm)to compare with since most people agree 5cm is A LOT difference, and shorter board usually is MORE FUN..
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i agree on the more fun part, and 5cm is a huge diff in my opinion. if you like neversummer why dont you check out the evo r and it will give you a park and allmt(custom) option on any given day..
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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i agree on the more fun part, and 5cm is a huge diff in my opinion. if you like neversummer why dont you check out the evo r and it will give you a park and allmt(custom) option on any given day..
after I tried park the last day of my trip.... I dont think I should spend too much time there for the heck of my safety..
for the future..I'd really think 85% all mountain & 15-20% park
evo supposed is a great board as well, but it just too much good things I've heard about sl-r.. but it's so hard to come across a good deal on them since they pretty much sold out everywhere
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
d-prostylee
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Originally Posted by saswu18 View Post
I actually do like this kind of in depth answers.. lol makes it easier to understand the whole concept.
I think I understood what you trying to say about the relationship between the length & pop

so according to your explanation, the difficulty I was facing of doing ollie may be just the lack of my leg strength plus the lack of experience. right?!

so in general, how fast the speed would justify the extra 5cm?? I'm asking becoz I doubt 95% of my riding would even go that fast to notice the "high-speed" chatter..
or maybe becoz I was riding a 156cm... so 99% time I would not even notice the chatter since it's so stable..
Ok - so the sizing thing one last time.

Burton had a general sizing chart for boards and I'm sure that the 135-155 weight class was good for an AMFS board 156cm. Everything else becomes preference.

Here's a couple links to sizing charts/recommendations etc.

Burton Custom Snowboard - Free Shipping! from Dogfunk.com
(click the "Sizing Chart" link on the product page)
Snowboard Sizing Guide, Size Calculator
Snowboard Length Calculator

some info for your knowledge hungry cranium
Things to Consider When Buying a Snowobard


The Custom is an All Mountain Freestyle Board (AMFS) - which is what you said you wanted. Anything smaller than a 154cm for your weight would be freestyle oriented IMO.

You said your 150lbs. I'm 5' 9/10" and 145lbs.
Here are the lengths of boards I'd use in the following situations
Freestlye - nothing shorter than 153cm (153/154cm)
AMFS - 156-158cm
Freeride/Back Country - 162cm - 165cm.

I won't even go near a 154cm for AMFS riding.
I've tried that size before and when I carve or go heavy into a turn or just try to traverse on a steep slope...the board washes out (b/c it can't support my weight plus the pressure/weight of the inertia going into the turn etc).

A few things go into my personal preferences - weight and experience. I'm riding at an advanced level as I've been doing this for almost a decade - so I'm used to applying pressure on the board, my edgework is solid so turning the board is no problem for me.

I have no problem shifting my weight to press the board (and ollie). It's not a struggle to bend the board in the least. I've ridden 157cm and 158cm boards and haven't had an issue with that. In fact the 156cm is starting to feel more of a freestyle board for me (but I think i'd still use a 154cm for a straight up freestyle board).

If you can nollie (nollie-ing came easier for me too when I first started) that means you can handle the stiffness of the board - you can bend it and pop off it. The Custom is a twin with directional flex (meaning the nose is actual stiffer than the tail on the Custom - but the shape of the board is a twin).

Personally i think the 151cm is gonna be hella small even for a freestyle board. A lot of jibsters and park guys wanna do the 151cm and swear by that size some even weigh more than I do. I would never do that...that's me though. (although I think I read somewhere that Shaun White rides a 152cm and he's the same weight/size as I am)

I think the 154cm/156cm are great for the All-Mountain riding which you said you bought the board for to begin with (considering your weight). You'll definitely appreciate the length of the board once you start learning how to carve (the edgework will help you in half-pipe when you're ready).

Here's a little tip to get you comfy with the ollie - Tail press - do this stationary: Try to squat down on your rear foot (almost like you're gonna sit down on the tail of the board). Grab the tail with the hand closest to the tail (tail grab) to exaggerate the motion and then begin to lift your front foot so the nose raises off the ground. See how high you can pick up the nose while maintaining your balance. When you think you've gotten the nose as high as you can release your hand from the grab and try to spring off your back foot as you begin to shift your weight back to be balanced and square over the board (you should be in the air while this is happening). Do that til you get comfortable with it. [I've got a silly tail press photo my friend took as we got off the lift from a couple weeks ago. I'll try to post it]

jmachpee9 makes some good points and it's cool that you're getting two different ppls perspectives...I def think the AMFS is the way to go as far as learning and progressing on a snowboard. Then when you're ready you can buy your freestyle stick...

I'm writing this on my lunch break so I'm sorry if this isn't really well thought out or organized and looooonng

P.S - I noticed the chatter when I was bombing down a dbl black (here in the NJ/PA mountains - which would be a Blue Square in any of the Tahoe Mtns haha). I don't think you're really gonna push the board like that for most of your riding though...I won't do that too often myself.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
Jojo
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id stick with it cuz by ur hieght and all looks like your still growin a bit so ur gonna reach that height but a 151 u'll pass pretty quick

also even if its harder to ollie now it'll pay off a lot in the long run
also by the time ur going park or whateva u will spin better (u'll be a bit taller) also turing wise not exactly easir sometimes the longer can actually push u into a nice carve but shorter u could unwillingly just whip the leg around

so with the longer board it'll last longer... and the hard work will pay off in the long run

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