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Old 02-05-2013, 12:24 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Honestly. I mean if we're going to raise the issue of legitimacy. Brands paying bloggers for reviews while other brands refuse to pay raises some serious conflicts of interest when we're talking about incentives and objectivity.
Totally agree.

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If that's your issue here with the NSDT how do you reconcile this for bloggers doing the same?
No difference here - I (and it appears many others) have exactly the same issue with those blogs as with the NSDT initiative: Paying reviewers (or giving them free gear - same thing), introduces a conflict of interest and might create a bias.

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I'm not really against anyone making money this way. It just raises a point I've never considered before when reading anyone's reviews. I'd just personally like to know who is paying for a review and who isn't.
Again, absolutely agree.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:46 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Extremo View Post
Honestly. I mean if we're going to raise the issue of legitimacy. Brands paying bloggers for reviews while other brands refuse to pay raises some serious conflicts of interest when we're talking about incentives and objectivity. If that's your issue here with the NSDT how do you reconcile this for bloggers doing the same?

I'm not really against anyone making money this way. It just raises a point I've never considered before when reading anyone's reviews. I'd just personally like to know who is paying for a review and who isn't.
A good point, well made. In terms of potential conflict of interest, transparency should be paramount regardless of the source of the review, be it an amateur/enthusiast forum, blog or media publication.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:08 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post

No difference here - I (and it appears many others) have exactly the same issue with those blogs as with the NSDT initiative: Paying reviewers (or giving them free gear - same thing), introduces a conflict of interest and might create a bias.
Again, maybe I'm ignorant, but I fail to see why this matters. The regulars here who know about the NSDT should be reading their reviews with a grain of salt, realizing that the review may contain some bias. As Leo mentioned earlier, the same can be said for those who buy boards and then independently review the board with a bias slant due to defending their purchase. To sum it up, if your taking every review you read at face value, regardless of the product, your doing yourself a disservice.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:56 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I'm heading back out the door but there is an FCC ruling that pertains to your questions. I'll have more time probably late tonight.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:15 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Another thing to consider about objectivity:

Leo has a group of riders that all jump on a review board and give him feed back. They have no stake and no motivation to lie about how the board felt.

Now here is my case and 3 of the riders I hand picked.

We are all instructors working with a group of other instructors. I have always swapped boards with my coworkers and gotten their feedback. This year, I am doing it more formally. I am having them ride the board and fill out a one page "quick review" sheet for me. These mini reviews will go into my overall review. On Friday, the night resort manager took out the 2014 Raptor for a couple of runs and gave me his feedback. I plan on getting at least a couple of other people I work with on the board and reviewing it. They have zero motivation to be bias!
Id be happy to help compare this to my 2012 Raptor! Now....to get up there....thats a different story! Ill be tuned in. Im actually really looking forward to seeing this NSDT come to fruition. Especially your reviews, Wolf. Hell it was your words that convinced me to look at the Raptor in the first place!
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:48 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Id be happy to help compare this to my 2012 Raptor! Now....to get up there....thats a different story! Ill be tuned in. Im actually really looking forward to seeing this NSDT come to fruition. Especially your reviews, Wolf. Hell it was your words that convinced me to look at the Raptor in the first place!
Umm. I think the NSDT has gone Kaput. At least here. Maybe elsewhere?
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:19 AM   #67 (permalink)
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This is probably the easiest way to sum up a lot of questions you guys have. FTC's New Rules for Bloggers: A Quick Guide | PCWorld I just don't have the time to deal with it. But this is the gist of the situation and me personally I've never been paid to post a review. I've had people try to buy advertorial space but my answer every time is fuck off.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:59 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extremo View Post
Can anyone confirm that bloggers aren't getting paid by the companies they review for?
Technically this is supposed to be disclosed, although I have no idea who could possibly enforce it

I can't speak for other bloggers, since I'm not privy to their arrangements. But no brands are paying me for reviews; I attend demos or beg companies to send me a demo board to ride for a few days before I send it back, or take some laps on a friend's board.

In the interest of full disclosure, Leo's shop that I have ridden with at Test Fest has paid me a fair but nominal fee to "work" the Test Fest and submit brief video reviews which they may use on their site but this money is not from any particular brand, it's basically amounts to a per diem to cover my gas & lodging expenses.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:10 AM   #69 (permalink)
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BA -

You keep saying you don't have the time for this yet you keep coming back to post the same thing in regards to time. If you don't have the time then why are you here?

If it doesn't matter like you say it doesn't matter then move on. Get on with your daily duties and forget about it. After all your website/daily duties are far greater than this site!!! As you've so boldly pointed out.

The fact that you're still hear after not having time, repeatedly, shows what others have said and what I see.

You have a vested interest in not seeing this review team come to fruition!

From reading this entire thread I see, as what others....even noobs, have seen.

You have ulterior motives which are monetary. I don't fault you for it, at all.

However you need to understand that if it's not this play that cost you what you've spent the last several years building up it will be another.

Another play which you have no control over.

Then you WILL be forced to do what you should be doing in this situation and that is shifting with the paradigm.

Everyone in the self employed industry works hard to secure a money maker but everyone in that same industry who is self employed must work just as hard to to stay on top of their game and figure out a way to make themselves more valuable than the competition.

This, from what I can pick up, is where you are at.

Sure this time you might have the support of the forum leaders to help you through it but next time you won't. And if you have the passion I think you do you you better shape that shit up for the next time that a forum like this doesn't have your back.

I, like many other guys here, were looking forward to the NS reviews. I also know that the 'guy behind this' would not steer me wrong because he got free gear.

You sir (BA), cannot be blamed for protecting the empire that you've built. It is admirable.

But you can be blamed for being like every other corporate fuck stick whose rose from the bottom to the top.

Like I said above---- the idea might be dead on this forum but it will rise in another and the next time it does you might not have so much control.

I feel sorry for the people who are truly losing out here.........and no matter how hard anyone tries to tell me people are losing out because of the projected format I will never agree.

Last edited by pdxrealtor; 02-06-2013 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:18 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Why not just do like other forums do, make sub forums for all the snowboard companies you can think of. People can post reviews in them. If companies give free shit out to review then great. I get free shit, I also don't mind giving my opinion on what it rides like or what the clothing feels like or how great the bindings are or how warm/water proof the hoodie/outerwear is....

It works for MTBR pretty well among other forums.... Jus do it and don't get all defensive when people talk shit about it. The less you respond to the shit talkers, the less they talk.

I personally could care less about getting a never summer, got a free one last weekend and we are selling/trading it.... I just read all of the threads and it seems that all the butthurt exploded in a bad way and it wasn't BA with the initial public explosion..... Private bickering in PM is one thing but all the public BS is another.
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