Can base edge tuning be actually omitted? - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
SnowboardingForum.com is the premier Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-21-2011, 09:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
Default Can base edge tuning be actually omitted?

It makes sense that a clean well maintained base edge should increase the performance. There are tools out there for base edging, and there are videos about it, so there should be an advantage of doing so or people will not even bother, even though they say base edging should not be performed too often, once a year would be sufficient.

I was going to get an edge tuner that can do both the side edge and the base edge. All the tuners that I could see at the shops on the entire street were for side edge only, I believe those were models from this year too. Although I am sure if I keep on searching then Iíll find one for both, I find it strange that only side edge tuners can be found at where the customers have easy access to.

As for the side edge tuner, the ones that I saw were all with preset angles; logically a reason would be for the convenience for the average (or experienced) customers who want to sharpen their own board / ski edges without to worry that the angle might be inconsistent. If that is the case, Iím surprised that I could find no edge tuners for both edges. Thatís not very convenient if Iíll need a separate file for the base edge. From the manufacturing perspective, it would seem that it is a matter of creating another slot for the file to fit into for base edging while making the mould. So does that suggest that sharpening only the side edges would be sufficient for leisure riding? Perhaps the base edge of the skis/boards nowadays donít really need to be sharpened?

Iíve seen videos of how people use a flat file with duck tape looped to create an angle for base edging, which is definitely not preferred for an average customer like myself. Iíd not want to screw up the edge angle.

I actually talked to a guy at a ski shop and was told that base edging is not necessary. He doesnít even do it himself. I also read comments like that online. Again, I do think there should be some boost of performance by doing the base edge. So the question is, is base edging really THAT important? Can it be omitted without affecting the level of leisure riding? Of course for the folks who need the push the speed to the limit would definitely do it.
33333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-28-2012, 03:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Default

Doesn't look like anyone answered you...

I'm no expert, but like you, I'm really surprised that most shops sell sharpening tools that are ONLY for the side edge.

Those shops will tell you to do the side edge, and once finished, to run the file lightly along the base edge to de-burr it, and then the job is done. (one shop told me this is how they do it themselves - sounds amateur!)


I'd much rather just get a tool that does both edges and do the job right.


Pro's, like this guy on youtube called groundhog574, demos how to sharpen base edges properly by using a file guide.

In another thread, someone recommended this tool that does both base and side edges:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boa...tml#post331465
mj62mj62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
Banned!
 
snowklinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: L-Town
Posts: 4,565
Default

Zombie alert!
__________________
Support Local Business
"Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart!" - Ash
snowklinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Default

What do you mean by zombie? (do you think I'm a bot?)

I'm real :-)
mj62mj62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
With extra cheese.
 
CheeseForSteeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33333 View Post
It makes sense that a clean well maintained base edge should increase the performance. There are tools out there for base edging, and there are videos about it, so there should be an advantage of doing so or people will not even bother, even though they say base edging should not be performed too often, once a year would be sufficient.

I was going to get an edge tuner that can do both the side edge and the base edge. All the tuners that I could see at the shops on the entire street were for side edge only, I believe those were models from this year too. Although I am sure if I keep on searching then Iíll find one for both, I find it strange that only side edge tuners can be found at where the customers have easy access to.

As for the side edge tuner, the ones that I saw were all with preset angles; logically a reason would be for the convenience for the average (or experienced) customers who want to sharpen their own board / ski edges without to worry that the angle might be inconsistent. If that is the case, Iím surprised that I could find no edge tuners for both edges. Thatís not very convenient if Iíll need a separate file for the base edge. From the manufacturing perspective, it would seem that it is a matter of creating another slot for the file to fit into for base edging while making the mould. So does that suggest that sharpening only the side edges would be sufficient for leisure riding? Perhaps the base edge of the skis/boards nowadays donít really need to be sharpened?

Iíve seen videos of how people use a flat file with duck tape looped to create an angle for base edging, which is definitely not preferred for an average customer like myself. Iíd not want to screw up the edge angle.

I actually talked to a guy at a ski shop and was told that base edging is not necessary. He doesnít even do it himself. I also read comments like that online. Again, I do think there should be some boost of performance by doing the base edge. So the question is, is base edging really THAT important? Can it be omitted without affecting the level of leisure riding? Of course for the folks who need the push the speed to the limit would definitely do it.
No, it's not very convenient to need a separate tool to maintain your side edge and base edge tune. It's also not convenient cars are affected by aerodynamics drag, either, but it can't be helped. Base edge tuners are designed differently because there is a larger surface you can lock into and the base edge angle is critical to really determining the feel underfoot. The side edge angle is just chosen to compliment the base edge angle so that the correct corner angle is achieved.

Base edge tuning is pretty imprecise even with experience and a quality tool. The best are the guide sets (FINAL CUT BASE BEVEL GUIDE-1 DEGREE). The next are shim plate sets or adjustable single purpose tools (PRO SHARP BASE BEVEL GUIDE or BEAST PRO SIDE GUIDE - 1 DEG). None of those tools really matter though because you are referencing your base edge angle from your base. What if your base isn't true? Do you have a true bar to tell? What if it's edge high? How do you deal with TBT, Omatic BS tech and all these other things that cause your base reference be erroneous?

Luckily, none of that really matters because we're snowboarders, not alpine racers. Unless you are running gates for time, the type of precision (within 0.25 degree +/- 25%) that skiiers set up their edges with is not needed.

Short answer is have the shop do a tune of it and just maintain it deburred with a diamond stone and hard gummy stone. By the time the edge needs a tune again, your base will probably need a stonegrind which will reset the edge.
CheeseForSteeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 20
Default

You necro-bumped a zombie thread
ShinigamiZR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
Banned!
 
snowklinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: L-Town
Posts: 4,565
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mj62mj62 View Post
What do you mean by zombie? (do you think I'm a bot?)

I'm real :-)
no heh, but its and 11 month old post, don't worry we've all done it (ok just me), its funny.
__________________
Support Local Business
"Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart!" - Ash
snowklinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheeseForSteeze View Post
Short answer is have the shop do a tune of it and just maintain it deburred with a diamond stone and hard gummy stone. By the time the edge needs a tune again, your base will probably need a stonegrind which will reset the edge.
Thanks for the detailed reply :-)


All of the links your provided are for somewhat expensive tools.

This one was recommended in another thread:

Base-Side Bevel File Guide SKS Multi Tool + 3 DMT diamond stones w/ file

It does both base and side edges, hopefully saving some cash. (although it's subject to the same issues you spoke about)

Also, it comes with 3 diamond stones for various purposes, allowing you to sharpen your edge while taking off less metal. One guy said he only uses a file one a year, and stones the rest of the time. Does this sound right to you?

Does this sound like a good tool?

It looks to be only £20 more than a regular side-only tool.
For the extra £20, why aren't more shops selling this combo-tool containing files+stones+base_edge+side_edge?


Previously I paid a local shop to tune by board but when I asked them about machine grinds etc they said they just use the same side-edge-only tool they have on the shelf for both side and base edge. That doesn't sound right, so I've been learning how to do it myself :-)
mj62mj62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
With extra cheese.
 
CheeseForSteeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,749
Default

Go to a different shop. Any shop that doesn't have something like some Wintersteiger machines for tuning and base work isn't one I will take my boards to for work. If I'm going to pay them money, I'm going to get the work done right. It's unbelievable how much faster a base that's all tore up is after a good shop does its work.

That tool you found is fine for maintaining a tune a couple of times, but it will eventually alter the tune. The tools I linked aren't that expensive, considering you can use them forever. As far as maintaining the tune, the frequency you do it will largely depend on how much you ride, what kind of conditions you ride and what your preferences are. If you like to race and carve your way down frozen granular hardpack and you do it 50+ days a season, you will probably be tuning every other day if not every other day. If you are an average rider and you get in 25ish days a season, one good tune at the beginning and maybe one half way through. I only grab the file guides every 6-8 days of riding. Rest of the time, I just use the stones.
CheeseForSteeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 04:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Default

Great reply :-) Thank you very much for sharing your expertise :-)
mj62mj62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:42 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums