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Old 04-26-2011, 12:11 PM   #51 (permalink)
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One thing I dislike is the fiery debate that this topic starts.

It's a law put on minors, but everyone begins to talk about their own freedom when they aren't even minors. Then it spills over to something like, "This is how it starts".

Well, it's already started and has been this way for a very long time. We can vote all we want and nothing will change. I'm not being pessimistic, just being realistic. What is all this finger pointing and complaining going to change? Nothing. The law has passed and that's that.

I don't care as long as it doesn't spill over to a mandatory helmet law for adults. I think it's good that minors are being forced to wear it. Screw the argument, "it should be up to the parents". No parent is perfect and far more are just "I don't give a flying F" types. Besides, what determined kid is honest? What's stopping them from acting like they are listening to their parents only to take the helmet off while they are riding? Do you seriously expect parents to ride with their kids 24/7? Minors (and many adults mind you) live with their parents. If they get hurt, guess who has responsibility for medical bills? First the parents. If they can't afford it, it's the tax payers'. This helmet law costs me nothing in comparison to what it is going cost me when kids get injured in a manner that otherwise wouldn't have happened had they been forced to wear a helmet. And in the end, kids aren't exactly known to make good judgment calls. Hell, I'm pushing 30 and still have a tough time with that haha.

Do I think there should be cops? Hell no. That's silly. Just revoke their passes.

And really guys, it's a helmet law. There's a lot more effed up stuff about our government. As for freedom? We are all free to move out of this country. You can't call people sheep if you yourself voluntarily choose to stay in a country that you feel is enslaving their citizens.

Honestly, what can you or I do about any of this? Is it really intruding on your life? Are you not going to snowboard anymore because a helmet law was passed? Did this ruin your dinner plans tonight? It's not going to affect me in any way. I was going to make my kid wear one anyway when the time comes to ride.

By the way, the seatbelt thing... I have no argument against that law. You only think it only affects you. If you get in a high speed crash on the freeway and your body flies out the window, you're body becomes a missile or at least a road obstacle. Now you're affecting other people. Mainly, you're affecting your passengers that choose to wear theirs. What's the point of me wearing my belt if a human projectile is flying around in the car during a crash?
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:13 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:27 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Leo View Post
One thing I dislike is the fiery debate that this topic starts.

It's a law put on minors, but everyone begins to talk about their own freedom when they aren't even minors. Then it spills over to something like, "This is how it starts".

Well, it's already started and has been this way for a very long time. We can vote all we want and nothing will change. I'm not being pessimistic, just being realistic. What is all this finger pointing and complaining going to change? Nothing. The law has passed and that's that.

I don't care as long as it doesn't spill over to a mandatory helmet law for adults. I think it's good that minors are being forced to wear it. Screw the argument, "it should be up to the parents". No parent is perfect and far more are just "I don't give a flying F" types. Besides, what determined kid is honest? What's stopping them from acting like they are listening to their parents only to take the helmet off while they are riding? Do you seriously expect parents to ride with their kids 24/7? Minors (and many adults mind you) live with their parents. If they get hurt, guess who has responsibility for medical bills? First the parents. If they can't afford it, it's the tax payers'. This helmet law costs me nothing in comparison to what it is going cost me when kids get injured in a manner that otherwise wouldn't have happened had they been forced to wear a helmet. And in the end, kids aren't exactly known to make good judgment calls. Hell, I'm pushing 30 and still have a tough time with that haha.

Do I think there should be cops? Hell no. That's silly. Just revoke their passes.

And really guys, it's a helmet law. There's a lot more effed up stuff about our government. As for freedom? We are all free to move out of this country. You can't call people sheep if you yourself voluntarily choose to stay in a country that you feel is enslaving their citizens.

Honestly, what can you or I do about any of this? Is it really intruding on your life? Are you not going to snowboard anymore because a helmet law was passed? Did this ruin your dinner plans tonight? It's not going to affect me in any way. I was going to make my kid wear one anyway when the time comes to ride.

By the way, the seatbelt thing... I have no argument against that law. You only think it only affects you. If you get in a high speed crash on the freeway and your body flies out the window, you're body becomes a missile or at least a road obstacle. Now you're affecting other people. Mainly, you're affecting your passengers that choose to wear theirs. What's the point of me wearing my belt if a human projectile is flying around in the car during a crash?
this is more or less the point i was trying to make.
im as liberal as the rest of you, but quit bitching about your rights being taken away when this law affects only the people whose rights are already limited by their age and idiocy.
even if this doesnt somehow infringe upon your rights, there isn't a single person on here or anywhere else that could convince me this law won't in some way benefit someone who would otherwise have hurt themselves had they not been wearing a helmet.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:35 PM   #54 (permalink)
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@Leo "We are all free to move out of this country. You can't call people sheep if you yourself voluntarily choose to stay in a country that you feel is enslaving their citizens."

Not really. The US still tries to tax expats for 10 years, a very draconian North Korea-esque policy also severely limits or excludes your ability to return to the US even as a 'tourist' to visit friends & family. So people choose the lesser of two evils, preferring to stay with their friends & family and in the land where they were born & raised. You can't fault them for that, and it's certainly not fair to say that "If you don't like it, you have an obligation to get the fuck out!" the country was founded on principles like freedom of association and freedom of expression, so it saddens me when people say things like, "If you don't like it, move somewhere else!" that's just a defeatist mentality.

But yeah I do agree that this is just not much of an issue and it's tough to get really riled up about "my freedom" in this regard. However, the historical record demonstrates that the "slippery slope" or the "ratchet effect" is not just a bogey-man dreamed up by tin-foil hat wearing libertarians to troll arguments on the internets, it's real.

There are certainly far more pressing concerns though with the US government, and how it impacts your freedom. Like a never-ending capacity to kill brown people in poor countries. That's your tax dollars hard at work. Or the revelation that the government is totally owned by big corporations - some people had been warning this for years but it took that 2008 crash to really bring it all to light. Or the "war on drugs" that costs life & liberty in real terms. Etc.

kids' snowboard helmets simply isn't on the radar of things I can give a shit about.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:41 PM   #55 (permalink)
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i hardly think this issue applies to your "slippery slope" theory.. this is just a bunch of far left,apocalypse crying people freaking out over a nonissue. kids have to wear a helmet while snowboarding..big fucking deal, just one more shitty thing about being a minor. on the upside, kids have no real responsibility, bills, or worries..they can deal with wearing a helmet
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:42 PM   #56 (permalink)
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My example was extreme to match the extreme "you are all sheep" comments.

I don't really go around telling these people to get the eff out. All I'm pointing out is that if your belief is strong enough to call me, someone who doesn't give two fish sticks about a stupid helmet law, a "blind sheep", then there is an extreme solution available to you.

And the way these extremists talk, there's nothing worse than staying here so again I present that option.

Trust me, I hate when people say get out of this country as it's been done to me plenty of times. There's a difference in the way they use it than the way I'm meaning to use it here.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:47 PM   #57 (permalink)
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My example was extreme to match the extreme "you are all sheep" comments.
I missed that one. Sorry!

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Trust me, I hate when people say get out of this country as it's been done to me plenty of times.
Yeah but you were probably asking for it
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:52 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Yeah but you were probably asking for it
I will neither confirm nor deny that kind sir.


Honestly, you and I see eye to eye on this. If we want to talk about how the government is corrupt, lets use the thousands of other, much better examples out there rather than a helmet law.

Also I think the logic behind the "It should be up to the parents" argument is very flawed.
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:27 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Also I think the logic behind the "It should be up to the parents" argument is very flawed.
"Very" is a word of conviction. I'm not saying I disagree, but I'm curious why you would think this...
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:50 PM   #60 (permalink)
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"Very" is a word of conviction. I'm not saying I disagree, but I'm curious why you would think this...
I'd say its VERY flawed because the parents influence only extends so far, especially in a setting like this. I'd say that a vast majority of kids (well over 90%) are probably dropped off at the mountain in the morning and picked up at the end of the day. It would be hard (read:impossible) for a parent to ensure that their child wears the helmet after they drop them off. My parents used to drive me to the skatepark when I was a kid..I had my helmet on just long enough for me to see their tailights disappear into the distance.
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