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Old 04-26-2011, 02:16 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Please don't get worked up because I'm here... just playing the "rights of the parent" side. Is it ok for Chicago to decide what a kid eats in school?

Chicago school bans homemade lunches, the latest in national food fight - Yahoo! News

"Nutrition wise, it is better for the children to eat at the school," principal Elsa Carmona told the paper of the years-old policy. "It's about ... the excellent quality food that they are able to serve (in the lunchroom). It's milk versus a Coke."

I think we all agree that the health of minors should be maintained, but where is the line drawn? I understand and fully support approaches to having healthier children, but to revoke the rights of a parent to decide for him/herself is VERY questionable unless that parent has been deemed unfit to make decisions regarding the child's health and safety.

The law will no doubt help many kids along the way... it's just that I see this school lunch situation and now the helmet law and can't help but think, "where does it stop?"
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:18 PM   #62 (permalink)
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@Music Moves pretty soon the kids will have to wear helmets when they go sledding in their backyards and they will be required to wear crampons if they walk to school during the winter months. Where it goes from there is anyone's guess
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:20 PM   #63 (permalink)
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@Music Moves pretty soon the kids will have to wear helmets when they go sledding in their backyards and they will be required to wear crampons if they walk to school during the winter months. Where it goes from there is anyone's guess
Haha.. I laugh, but you never know d_z... you never know...
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:22 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Music Moves View Post
"Very" is a word of conviction. I'm not saying I disagree, but I'm curious why you would think this...
I touched on why and EastSide described it in further detail.

Aside from the technicalities, the train of thought in that reasoning is what bothers me.

Based solely on that logic, then it should also follow that it's up to the parents not to raise criminals. Some circumstances cannot be feasibly controlled unless the parent/guardian is there next to their kid 24/7. Even then, it's not full-proof. Some people are just bastards no matter how good a family raises them.

Now that is a pretty extreme example, but it's for the sake of trying to relay my reasoning. It's the parents responsibility to make their children wear helmets then it's also their responsibility to make their children abide by the law.

I believe we humans as a whole need some sort of guidance through rules. For every 1 person who can function just fine without laws, there are probably hundreds or thousands more who wouldn't. Look at riot situations. I'm sure a lot of those people who loot during a riot normally wouldn't otherwise. They see a moment of lawlessness and go for it. I'm sure at least some of these people came from a good home.

Group mentality is hard to battle. Minors are especially susceptible to group mentality. Peer pressure. Your kid is surrounded by others not wearing a helmet. What can you possibly do as a parent to ensure they keep that helmet on their head? What makes you a good parent in this situation? If there is a mandatory law requiring your kid to wear a helmet, wouldn't you as a parent welcome that said law if you have exhausted all other resources? I guess you can lock your kid up in the house to prevent them from riding at all, but come on... this can go right back to the "Yes mom, I'll use it (lies)".

That's not such a far fetched scenario either. I've lied to my parents plenty of times growing up to do what I wanted without them knowing. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on that.

I probably wasn't very clear with a lot of this as I'm rushing to post it haha.
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:27 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Music Moves View Post

The law will no doubt help many kids along the way... it's just that I see this school lunch situation and now the helmet law and can't help but think, "where does it stop?"
it stops when:
a.parents decide that they'd rather fight the system collectively than just bend over and allow the schools to make these decisions
b.children can be trusted to do what their parents say when their parents aren't around
c.children somehow learn to do what's best for themselves over what they WANT for themselves

ie. never

the sad truth is that most schools probably DO offer healthier food for children than their parents make - parents are in charge of parenting their child full-time and sometimes nutrition falls by the wayside, whereas the people making the decisions about school lunches are doing THAT full-time.

I'm just saying, until parents are collectively willing to step-up and take on all of these issues head-on, there is no end.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:23 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Not upset mate, just no reason to be the way you are no matter if you give a fuck or not about what people think, there is such a thing called tact, google it. And as far as snowboarding knowledge, no doubt you know more than me and i couldnt care less my life remains the same. As for our country well maybe you need to google some more mate as 80% of our country not being populated is by choice not by nessecity, and also it may have to do with the fact that we have less than 10% of the US's total population, so why wouldnt we live on the coast in our non over populted cities. Do yourself a favour and make a trip down here before making retarded statements about a country you know nothing about.

Back to the topic, i understand that sometimes you dont want to change things you have done all your life but are you saying that as times change then we shouldnt adapt? As life goes on we make new discoveries and gain knowledge so are we supposed to just live the way we used to? I could give a shit if you crack you head open if you know the dangers but why should we not try and protect our children and youth? As far as how much new legislation and laws cost only a lengthy (20+ years) study will probably show the savings or extra cost of enforcing helmet use vs medical cost related to head injuries. Im not going to get into the tax discussion (even though the US is taxed very low compared to most other western countries) and im not suggesting police need to monitor the new rule, i agree with whoever posted that the lift guys enforce it, if you hvae a ticket and no helmet = no ride. But for anyone to simply say that change is infringing against their rights is wrong, change is going to happen no matter what you want/do and no amount of complaining will change this, its how life works, we grow older, get wiser, and put in place systems to help protect our countries future.
You ever think less people = less crime plus more open land without over crowding = less crime? I know hard concept to understand but maybe that gaping hole in the Ozone layer is frying your brain. Comparing your country to ours just doesn't work it's not one and the same.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:30 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Again, this a simple concept. It really is as simple as letting people make personal decisions about things and that gies for allowing parents to actually raise their children instead of the state. If little Johnny cracks his noggin open because his parents let him ride without a helmet, how in the hell does that affect little Billy and his parents who make Billy wear one??? Again, some of you people seem to want to have the state do your job of being a parent.

I teach at Mt. Hood Meadows and Meadows has now required kids under 16 in a lesson to wear a helmet unless the parent declines. They have a policy but leave the ultimate decission up to the parent as it should be. The feel good knee jerk reactionary types have tried to get Oregon and Washington to pass laws but neither state sees wasting time and tax dollars in such a stupid manner.
It's all a matter of perspective. The sad truth is that some parents CAN'T be trusted to do their jobs, or simply don't realize the risk their children are putting themselves into. You think every parents realizes little Billy is hitting 70ft gaps in the terrain park? Or that they're riding rails where a good slip and a tap to the head could be lights out for them? Maybe they do,maybe they don't... but what does happen is that the state, the tax payers, and sometimes the resorts end up losing money through lawsuits, reforms, etc.

Lets be honest, there's as many shitty parents in this world as good ones, and sometimes you just can't leave it up to them.

Besides, maybe it'll set a precedent... it's like wearing a uniform in a private school. The kid isn't worried about looking cool, having the newest or most stylish clothing, and can focus instead on the important things. Beyond that, if all the kids have to wear helmets, maybe the younger up and comers will be even more accepting of them, and itll become commonplace not because of law but because it's the standard.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:32 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Very simple indeed...

More regulations = less freedom
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:34 PM   #69 (permalink)
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so what?
it's not like they're restricting your freedom to : speech, press, arms, liberty,justice, fair trial, etc.
they're restricting the freedome of minors whose freedoms are already wholly restricted anyway in a way that can only serve to protect them.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:54 PM   #70 (permalink)
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The right to make our own decisions regarding our families is more important than many of those that you mentioned, imo.
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