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Old 04-26-2011, 04:55 PM   #71 (permalink)
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if they enforced that rule to protect the kids then its cool with me.i wear one anyways and so does my 7 year old niece because its "my rules".i know in some resorts if you have no leash on your board you cannot ride the chairlifts,guess not all are the same.making it standard on all resorts for minors in certain ages might do the trick.
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:00 PM   #72 (permalink)
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you do have the right to make nearly every decision regarding your family.
and if you really don't want your kid to wear a helmet, then either a.dont let them snowboard or b.dont bring them to resorts. i can't think of a single responsible parent who wouldn't encourage their child to wear a helmet anyway, and now when they say "i dont want to, its not cool" you say "it doesnt matter because its against the law not to" in the same way they must wear a seatbelt, in the same way they must be a certain height to ride a roller coaster, etc.
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:15 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by East告de View Post
you do have the right to make nearly every decision regarding your family.
and if you really don't want your kid to wear a helmet, then either a.dont let them snowboard or b.dont bring them to resorts. i can't think of a single responsible parent who wouldn't encourage their child to wear a helmet anyway, and now when they say "i dont want to, its not cool" you say "it doesnt matter because its against the law not to" in the same way they must wear a seatbelt, in the same way they must be a certain height to ride a roller coaster, etc.
Already stated that I don't mind the helmet law directly to you. It's not the helmet law specifically. It's the fact that they use time and money add regulations such as this and since you seem to not understand why, I'll help.

Banks and financial firms have been having regulations lifted for decades now and once they blow everything, not only are they neither taxed nor any of the people punished, but they are given billions of dollars. Laws will be passed to add more trivial regulation on individuals and they will nickel an dime the hell out of people over these insignificant (as far as widely affected population is concerned) "infractions" of the law. There have been HUGE infractions of the law that have affected the entire world and no one is held accountable. But they'll fine Johnny when Johnny Jr isn't wearing his helmet. AND they won't let little Johnny eat what he wants for lunch.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:07 PM   #74 (permalink)
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My question still remains: What about the good parents that raise their kids right and want them to wear a helmet? Like I said, minors (adults too) are very susceptible to peer pressure. Billy sees all his friends not wearing one (usually not the case anyway), so he feels compelled to not wear one no matter how well he was taught and raised.

That doesn't mean the parent is not doing their job or that the kid is bad. There were just other variables involved. That parent might appreciate this rule.

But I do agree with the tax payer thing. Cops on the hill are BS. I like the one Wolfie mentioned. It's enforced for them to wear one and it's up to the parents to decline. That's a great way to do it.

At any rate, my dislike towards the law is not the act of forcing kids to wear one... it's the penalties and basically making it a crime. That part is BS. And it sets a precedent.

The type of argument against the law I don't see eye to eye on is the whole "it's up to the parents". I already pointed out why.

The food rule is Flaming BS. However, it's very different from the helmet law. They are enforcing the diet on all their students. This includes those that already eat healthy meals at home. On top of all that, they are intruding in on the families' culture be it ethnic or family traditions.

As a parent, it would be nice to know that a resort has some sort of helmet rule (not law) in place to compliment my enforcement of it.

Although in reality, I plan on shredding together with my son haha.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:33 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Its nice to see this tread has gone to some logical responses, i agree on the food in school issue, while the best intentions may be to help kids eat healthier the fact remains it is a very different issue from wearing a helmet while participating in an "extreme" sport. Education is probably the key in both situation along with more choices (for the food, give education then give options) And as far as the food issue, i for one was shocked when i went to Uni over there and went to the cafeteria and there was pizza, hotdogs, burgers then the other choice was on little old ass looking salad bar and a quizno's. Not reall what i was expecting from a University caf.

As far as many people have said i think police enforcing this on the mountains is BS and i agree they should be doing something more productive like fining people for having a broken tail light or maybe doing 2 miles over the speed limit jk. I agree with snowolf in saying that tort law needs to be revised as i think that one of the biggest messed up laws throught the western world (albeit more in the US) is that anyone can sue for anything, i think i read an article of someone robbing a house cut themselves on the broken window they used to get in and sued for damages for having an unsafe property or something like that. Regardless of all this i think a few people have hit the nail on the head saying that we as a responsible society need to sometime make rules to protect our youth who can make somewhat questionable decisions from time to time
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:26 AM   #76 (permalink)
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@Music Moves - sorry, I must have missed that comment about the helmet law.

What I want to know is this: The argument seems to have changed from "they're infringing on our rights, when will this ever end?!?!?wtfwtf" to "it's not about the law, it's about the wasted money and resources" because cooler minds have prevailed in reasoning that overall, while this law somewhat infringes on people's rights, it is inarguably for the greater good. My question is : how much money and resources are really being used to enact a law like this? It's not as if they need to supply every potential snowboarded with a helmet. It would seem to me that it wouldn't require more than a memo to resorts, some signs posted up, and maybe some other small details - which, ironically, would probably be paid for pretty quickly if there was some sort of ticket or something for NOT wearing a helmet.
I agree, parents should be left to raise their children however they see fit, but if a parent doesn't insist on their kid wearing a helmet, and that kid gets hurt, it's no longer just a burden on the parent - it may become a legal issue for the resort,a massive payout by an insurance company, perhaps erroneous other lawsuits on equipment manufacturers,etc.
What it would cost enact this law is probably less than what the cost would be to do two operations to alleviate brain swelling and bleeding in a head trauma patient.

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Totally legit point. I think the answer is much simpler than government intervention. Let the resorts handle it with policies. If a resort does not have a mandate, then just like anything else, it is up to the parent to be a good parent and control their kids. Most parents don`t want their kids smoking pot or drinking and in all states it is illegal. That does not stop kids from smoking pot or drinking. Helmet laws will not really solve the concerns you raise in my opinion.
Yes, but I would think that that goes on in 2 situations:
a. the children are unsupervised, which would not be the case on a resort mountain or
b. the parents are negligent and irresponsible, in which case the parents may ignore the helmet law, but it won't change the fact that their kid can't right at a resort regardless of what the parents think.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:02 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Totally legit point. I think the answer is much simpler than government intervention. Let the resorts handle it with policies. If a resort does not have a mandate, then just like anything else, it is up to the parent to be a good parent and control their kids. Most parents don`t want their kids smoking pot or drinking and in all states it is illegal. That does not stop kids from smoking pot or drinking. Helmet laws will not really solve the concerns you raise in my opinion.
Yea, nothing ever will completely resolve issues like these. However, it's just nice to have the rules there. You know, my son enjoys snowboarding so much that he's unwilling to get his pass revoked for something stupid like not wearing a helmet.

Doesn't mean that will be the case 100% of the time, but it certainly gets you closer to it. Plus now it also doubles as doing two things wrong aside from the danger aspects:

1) Not wearing a helmet when I want him to

2) Breaking the rules which I'm certainly going to teach him against doing

I do feel I will have more control over the drinking and pot issue. This is mainly because I was that kid. Really bad into it actually so I'm very in tune with the signs. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people out there that do not even know what pot smells like. A friend of mine from Vegas planted some pot in his yard. His parents and grandma used to water it with the rest of the garden. They had no clue.

I'm not saying I'm going to be able to prevent it from EVER happening, but I feel more educated towards the matter in order to help me prevent it. I think that's the major issue when it comes to parenting... lack of education. You don't have to be an ex druggie to get educated on it especially in this day and age. The Internet is full of resources. It's up to the parent to spend some time learning about this stuff. There's no excuse for not knowing what a marijuana plants or drug paraphernalia looks like.

But yea, I don't want a helmet law for skiing/snowboarding. I want resort policies for children. Adults can think for themselves. Revoke the pass if the kid isn't wearing a helmet. Give parents ability to decline that rule for their children. It could be stated on their lift ticket or season pass. Simple solution that doesn't involve the law or police. It only makes use of the ski patrol that's already there.

Maybe this means the parents have to buy the ticket for the minors. So be it. If they can't buy their own ticket for an R-rated movie, then why should they be allowed to buy a ticket for a relatively dangerous sport?
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Last edited by Leo; 04-27-2011 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:22 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by East告de View Post
while this law somewhat infringes on people's rights, it is inarguably for the greater good. My question is : how much money and resources are really being used to enact a law like this?
This is probably a case where any amount is "too much". Because there literally hundreds of much bigger problems in society which affect many more people, towards which tax dollars and legislative resources would be better or more equitably spent. You can't reasonably argue that this is the most efficient use of legislative time & effort, or tax dollars while people are still starving and homeless and poor and can't find jobs or feed their families etc.

Just to put it in perspective, do you have any idea how many people die each year while skiing/snowboarding?

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FORTY. That's it. And most of them (over half) are wearing helmets, and most of them are 18+.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:49 AM   #79 (permalink)
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I'd be more interested in a study about how many people were saved due to the use of helmets. The death count tells me very little regardless of helmet use. A helmet only does so much for riders.

I'm not interested in helmet use so I can go beyond my skillset. I'm more interested in keeping my head safe from the small stuff. I don't want my season to end because I caught an edge on an ice patch.

That's why I want my kids to wear one. Stats show only 40 deaths occur in skiing/snowboarding. But how many deaths and injuries DIDN'T occur due to helmet use.

That's a stat that would matter, but it's also a stat that can't accurately be recorded. No way to tell if a helmet did in fact save me from injury or death the last time I smacked my head. I can only make assumptions that it did. The only way to know for sure is if doctors and physicists were watching my fall and were able to see exactly how I impacted with the ground. Even then, it's just an educated guess lol.

Damn, I must be bored haha.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:55 AM   #80 (permalink)
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the proxy stat for what you're looking for, Leo, is the fact that there has been no measurable decline in the number of fatalities even though helmet use has been steadily increasing over the last 10 years - meanwhile skier days remains flat. So we have the same number of participants and the same number of deaths, but twice as many helmets as a decade ago.

I'm not interested in helmet use so I can go beyond my skillset.

I think a lot of people do use a helmet this way and so they take bigger risks. This is well-documented form of moral hazard. Seatbelts and airbags and insurance policies suffer from this, too. Basically when you think you are being protected, you take more risks, which in some cases can negate or mitigate the protection!

And you probably succumb a bit to moral hazard even if you're not chucking yourself off 40-footers. The beginner rider or intermediate is going to feel safer, and as a result subconciously might take more risks than otherwise.
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