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Old 10-21-2011, 02:55 PM   #81 (permalink)
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my two cents... snowboarding was, and still is to a large degree, counter-culture. burton has evolved into a savvy business and achieved market dominance and that makes them mainstream. this clashes with the sentiments of counter-culture thereby making it cool to hate on them. it's the same thing need to rebel, to be different, to stand-out from the norm that characterizes all counter-culture genres. but, ironically, a lot of the haters are just being the sheep that they try not to be by jumping on the bandwagon and hating on the thing that everyone else is hating with little justification. comparing products in burton's line-up to other company's products in the same price point, their prices are not outrageous. comparing failure rates based on volume of sales, i'd bet their quality is on par with every other major player. it's become the social norm to support the underdogs and people think they sound more cool when they profess to support a more obscure brand than their friends.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:33 PM   #82 (permalink)
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my two cents... snowboarding was, and still is to a large degree, counter-culture. burton has evolved into a savvy business and achieved market dominance and that makes them mainstream. this clashes with the sentiments of counter-culture thereby making it cool to hate on them. it's the same thing need to rebel, to be different, to stand-out from the norm that characterizes all counter-culture genres. but, ironically, a lot of the haters are just being the sheep that they try not to be by jumping on the bandwagon and hating on the thing that everyone else is hating with little justification. comparing products in burton's line-up to other company's products in the same price point, their prices are not outrageous. comparing failure rates based on volume of sales, i'd bet their quality is on par with every other major player. it's become the social norm to support the underdogs and people think they sound more cool when they profess to support a more obscure brand than their friends.
Snowboarding hasn't been counter culture for at least a decade. It is marketed as such and kids love to think they belong to something special. But if you are looking to snowboarding for that you are looking in the wrong place.Unless you are hiking for your runs and buying used/going DIY with your gear you are feeding one conglomerate after another.The resorts, outerwear, boards, transportation. Skateboarding still has that bit of edge because you can do it pretty much anywhere and to some degree back country and urban riding have that but as to it being underground, that is no more.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:43 PM   #83 (permalink)
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I just read through all of this and it was quite entertaining. I like how people throw the words "fact" and "cheap" and "over-priced" around.

Some one said something about it being a "fact" that 80% of Burton sales are not snow related. I find that to be a staggering statistic since I work for one the largest Burton accounts and the only thing Burton we sell that is not snow related is is rolling luggage a few non-technical back packs; those sales are less than 5% of what we sell. So if a top 10 account sells 95% snow related product, I find it hard to believe that all of the other Burton accounts sell waaaaay more $50 backpacks (Oh yeah, and look at every other snowboard brand, they sell t-shirts, hats, etc. too)

Someone else talked about "swallowing up smaller brands." Usually the small company getting bought up is about to go out of business. So would you rather see Forum, Blend, and Foursquare go away forever (because Mervin, NS, and Rome would be able to afford to absorb a brand's debt). Acquisitions happen. If they don't, we lose brands...try getting a warranty board from Omatic this year...

They only thing Burton that use/own are my Gore Mitts, but I don't bash the brand. Do they have stuff that works for me (boards, bindings, boots, etc.)? Yes. Do I use them? No (well only when testing next year's product). It comes down to people just wanting to hate on the "big player." I work for a pretty large retailer and I here the hate all of the time. The funny thing is that the people that bash the snowboard selection we have (because I buy for our stores) have a lot less knowledge about snowboards and spend a lot less time on EVERY board out there than I do. It is time to realize that this world is slightly bigger than your needs/desires/image/etc.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:55 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Someone else talked about "swallowing up smaller brands." Usually the small company getting bought up is about to go out of business. So would you rather see Forum, Blend, and Foursquare go away forever (because Mervin, NS, and Rome would be able to afford to absorb a brand's debt). Acquisitions happen. If they don't, we lose brands...try getting a warranty board from Omatic this year...
Skipped a link of logic there. Why are the smaller entities going out of business? Because they cannot compete with giants. If the Gorilla was not hoarding all of the bananas, the Chimpanzees wouldn't be starving in the first place.

Yes I know blah blah blah we use our consumer dollars to support big business and make it thrive, hence the reason it exists. Doesn't change the fact that big businesses make small businesses suffer.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:56 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Skipped a link of logic there. Why are the smaller entities going out of business? Because they cannot compete with giants. If the Gorilla was not hoarding all of the bananas, the Chimpanzees wouldn't be starving in the first place.
I have never known a Burton representative (big gorilla) to reach into a consumers pocket and take money (banana) from them. Please share your experience of when you have seen this happen. "Smaller" companies (chimpanzees) have a tougher time for sure, but usually they lead to their own demise. They are poorly run and the over spend, even though they have quality product and a corner on the market. Forum had a great thing going going, great sales, but it was run with little to no accountability and needed cash to stay a float. Omatic could deliver board on time to save their life (they delivered my boards 3 months late two years in a row and then shipped the wrong boards). In the wakeboard world, a small company called Company went under because they used patented technology and tried to fight it in court rather than pay $2k in royalties. Hard headedness and big egos will crush small business too. What I am saying is, your big gorilla and little chimpanzee argument puts the gorilla vs the chimp fighting over the banana, but in reality they are only fighting for the chance to have the banana choose which one they will go to.

Last time I checked, every snowboarder makes a choice as to what to spend their money on, some make informed choices, some don't. Get opinions, read reviews, demo it yourself, talk to experts, and then for your own opinions. As it has been mentioned on here, there are plenty of stories of every brand's stuff breaking and failing.

And plenty of small companies have made it; Never Summer, Union, all Mervin brands, etc.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:10 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Everyone seems to be afraid of being a sheep but how many people here hate on Burton because of a personal experience. I'm sure not many.
Have to agree with this I have some horror stories of shit that's happened to me with them and their warranty is a lot different from them but whatever.

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Didn't burton take credit for inventing the snowboard or something like that?

In the article it said
"Carpenter started the company in Londonderry after seeing someone riding a homemade board."

I have never liked Burton products.
Don't like the weird hole pattern forcing you to use their bindings
And forcing binding Manufactures to produce 2 sets of discs so they could mount to burton.
Now they have the sliding thing. I thinking 4 bolts to hold me to the board is stronger but not sure.
Minimum orders.
Buying up good small companies. So now I won't buy anything under the burton Umbrella.
I broke my ankle using the Freestyle boot that was total garbage and Had I had on a good stiff boot I would have been able to ride the rest of the season.
Also The gloves I bought were complete garbage they were no where near waterproof hands were wet within the first hour of riding
No board they make that I could ride will be made in the USA. Not that they made very many in the US anyway.
They have been outsourcing their boards for over 25 years.
Jake tried to patent snowboard and sent bills to other snowboard Manufactures.
They sponsered John Johnson, they must have paid him a Sh!t ton of cash.d

Edit Guess john jackson was already on burton sub company Forum. Wonder if he will be in T rices next movie?

What I did like about them Terje, and they kept Craig Kelly Sponsered, Not sure where the rest of the team riders went.
So you chose the softest boot the company makes and you're pissed you got injured while riding but know you need a stiffer boot? Sounds to me like you can't take accountability to your actions. Then again you just sound like a moron.

Gotta agree with Squeak on points he's making.

FYI all you price hating fear mongers no one is saying buy a Method or Vapor. I'd be content riding a Sherlock, Hero, and Joystick from them which is comparable in price to other brands boards in the same categories. Maybe you should realize they have one of the most diverse lines in snowboarding.

And this is coming from a guy that is definitely not pro Burton by any means.
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:43 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Wow.. I think that's the mellowest post I've ever seen BA write. Is he feeling ok?
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:16 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Wow.. I think that's the mellowest post I've ever seen BA write. Is he feeling ok?

I know this is off-topic, but thanks for the "9 days on snow" middle finger, Karasene!
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