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Safety Topic: Tree Wells

80K views 100 replies 55 participants last post by  rambob 
#1 ·
#4 ·
Having been in a couple of tree wells, one upside down and one right side up. It happens really fast and even if you have a split second to react, those holes suck you in; it can happen several days after a big dump and its really disorienting. When I was upside down, I did not know it at first, you can't tell by the light and you body is generally suspended...so its natural to wiggle around to see if you can get yourself out, but as the snow is caving in around you, you are already breathing hard, choking on pow, you heat up instantly and easily panic...especially if you don't know if anyone knows you are there. When I was right side up, I was hiking out of a biff, waist deep and hit a bridged tree/hole...completely buried tree and fell through to my neck and luckily was able to get my board under my arms to prevent sinking deeper and eventually able to pack enough snow under me to wiggle out of the hole. When its those conditions you learn to keep a healthy distance from anything that might look like a tree well.
 
#5 ·
Tree wells are no joke. As Snowolf pointed out, I learned the hard way, but was lucky cause I fell in feet first. There really was no way to tell that the snow was going to give out. It happened in a split second. I truly believe that had he not heard me, I would have spent a very cold night stuck in the snow. After being in one feet first, I would hate to find out what head first feels like. Wrath, you're lucky to be here and would guess that riding with a partner is what kept you around. I still ride in the trees, but I do it a little more cautiously now.
 
#8 ·
I ride trees solo a lot, but stay away from anything that looks like a small tree sticking up out of the snow. I try to ride in glades of old growth where all of the branches are way above the snow level and avoid areas that have a lot of second generation and new growth trees.
Good tip, I never knew that. I ride trees solo a lot also and hope to never find this out the hard way. Was this true for you other guys? Was it smaller trees with branches close to the ground?
 
#9 ·
i've been down in a hole by myself before... the most important thing for me was the ability to unstrap my board while upside down and/or covered in snow. that and not hitting my head and losing consciousness.

also worth mentioning vents. out here all the mountains are volcanoes and i have come over a roller or berm and been swallowed up by a venting hole that went straight down to rock - sharp volcanic rock - not fun! luckily it was only about 5-6 feet deep. core shot for sure tho :D
 
#12 ·
i've been down in a hole by myself before... the most important thing for me was the ability to unstrap my board while upside down and/or covered in snow. that and not hitting my head and losing consciousness.
Hadn't thought about that, but this would be the biggest argument against using Flows or Cinches with this type of riding. Unsnapping the back of the highback would be hellish if you were head-down on your back.
 
#11 ·
I have found that it seems to be the trees where only the tops are sticking up. In other words, if you see a tree that looks like it's only a few feet tall, but has no trunk exposed, stay away from it. It's most likely that the rest of the tree is under snow and waiting to swallow up an unsuspecting victim. IMO it's really about being able to see the trunk. Since most of the trees out here in the PNW do not have many low branches, if you can see some trunk bottom, then there is nothing to worry about since the branches are above ground. It's the ones with no trunk that have many branches buried under the snow that kill people, or at the very least, get them incredibly stuck.
 
#14 ·
I've watched the video before and it seemed those people could have gotten the guy out sooner, pretty uncoordinated. This problem isn't common here in the Mid Atlantic since we mostly have artificial snow but tree wells are definitely hazard that needs to be taken seriously by everyone.
 
#16 · (Edited)
My sisters ex-boyfriends sister (got that?) died in a tree well @ Mammoth a couple years ago. I do not know particulars as I didn't speak to him directly about it at the time but she and her husband were riding together going down a run that they had both ridden countless times (Mammoth was home MTN) through a glade and when he got to the bottom she never followed. He spent hours waiting/looking for her after notifying ski patrol but they still did not find her later that day, even knowing the run she disappeared on. They were both advanced riders, in bounds, at their home resort. It was later found that she actually hit a buried branch with the nose of her board that made her "go over the handlebars" head first into a deep tree well. She completely disappeared and suffocated.

Super fkin scary and utterly tragic. She left two young kids behind. RIP

EDIT: found an article about it http://www.ocregister.com/news/snow-237841-ski-deep.html
 
#17 ·
There was rider out here in WA at Crystal Mountain last season that fell in a tree well and was not found until the summer thaw. They're dangerous. Even in-bounds, they're still there and just as dangerous. The avalung is not a bad idea, but most people would not be wearing that while riding in-bounds, and it's almost always in-bounds that someone falls into a tree well. It was for me, and it was for the poor person that lost his life at Crystal last year. The majority of people just assume that if they are in-bounds, then they are safe.
 
#19 ·
Holy shit, that's scary/ I'm going out west next year and this sheds a lot of light. I always knew about tree wells, but kind of wrote them off and eventually forgot about them because we can still see the grass where I ride. Will definitely pay attention when I'm on trips now. :dunno::eek:
 
#20 ·
Even when I've been in the trees with a friend, we lose sight of one another very easily and if one of us were to fall the other would be way the hell down the hill before long. In deep pow trying to hike back up even a short distance can take forever. Does it provide a false sense of security to think that having a buddy is really all that much safer than riding alone? It seems as if your buddy must be in the right place at the right time to know you fell in and are in need of help.
 
#25 ·
IF the person fell head first and was 100% immediately suffocated without ANY air (picture a rear naked choke) then yeah, 5 minutes tops. that however is usualy not the case. I would imagine the death to be much more gradual, slow, torturous. Perhaps hanging upside down all night, then eventually dying from hypothermia.
 
#26 ·
Does anyone have any recommendations on the equiptment we should be using re: what brands/where to buy/what to look for/what items/what costs etc etc etc. I am assuming- whistle, shovel, probe......
a
that video opened my eyes. Im heading to Revy in January. Glades and la Nina could spell horrible tragedy - I must be prepared.

THANK YOU AGAIN for this thread!
 
#28 ·
When I saw that video, I was freaked out as well, an eye opener.

I just tied up a whistle in my jacket as well, just in case…

I think the best way to train for such thing, is to actually, purposely fall into one, (with your friends around of course) and try to get yourself out, because practice makes perfect, or at least will make you panic less.
 
#29 ·
Inbounds within the ski area boundary. Groomed trails are generally safe from this. But watch for these small trees on the sides of the groomers; several fatal accidents have occurred within a few yards of groomed trails. I had an encounter with a snow bridge at Timberline one night early in the season. To the right of Vicky's Run is a small bluff that makes for a great natural kicker. I hit it hard and launched myself out into what looked like soft deep pow. What it turned out be was a giant snow bridge supported by thick, tangled 3 to 4 foot high pine saplings. I was tangled up in them that it took me forever to get out. I was in sight of the main trail and not more than 20 feet from it. Had I landed on my back, I could have gone in upside down easily.
On mount washing

I've once fallen into a 15 foot hole on the side of a groomer, but still within the runs boundries. It didn't make any sense how or why it was there, it was just a big open hole about 12 foot across 15 feet deep that went down to rock. There was i think 620cm base at that time. I fell into it because i was turning to head into the glades and i followed some ski tracks that went over a tiny roller, i got to the top and it was just like a small cliff.

another time I was going down a different run with some buddies and suddenly my friend did what looked like someone jumping for their life, and we stop and there's this black hole that went straight down about 4 foot across that my friend jumped over, no marking or anything, so we start riding a little more cautious and we come across 4 more of these holes that go down however many feet, like i said the snow base at that time was between 600-700cm. These where in the middle of a double black groomed run.
 
#31 ·
Impressive kit their Snowolf. Most impressive.
You board with that knife strapped to your arm? would get arrested here in Japan.
We don't have tree wells where I ride because the trees are different, even so going off piste solo is something I have stopped doing. As was mentioned staying in visual and verbal contact all the while is the way to go. Even if you just hit a tree or took a bad fall you could be in real trouble by yourself.

Stay safe people.
 
#33 ·
Don't judge me too harshly on this because I am from Ohio and have only ridden anywhere big once (Vail), but do you (snowolf) really carry all of that stuff when you're riding in an area where ski patrol and cats roam?
when I was at vail the farthest I could get away from all the people and still make it to a lift at the end of the run without a huge hike were places like this

but it seemed extremely safe and nonthreatening. Am I just extremely ignorant or are you riding in areas at resorts that are out of bounds?
edit: you can see the out of bounds rope in the photo above. I was in bounds in this pic and didn't go out because if I did I wouldn't have made it to the lift at the bottom
 
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