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Old 12-30-2011, 08:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default soreness in knees

ive been riding rome 390 bosses with 2 degrees cant this year, 5'6"/29" inseam with a ~21" stance (widened from last year from <20")...getting soreness with inner-side of my knees. If I ride a few days continuously, they start feeling very sore and unstable...

Does increasing the cant put more stress on the innerside of the knees? Trying to figure out what I should do to tweak the setup...

my angles are 15,-12

Thanks

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Old 12-30-2011, 10:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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ride more build up the muscles and ice after riding.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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My theory is similar to when I get knee pain from running. If I have pain its because I am not bending the knees as much as I should. I have found that if my quads are weak the body naturally compensates by not bending the knee, resulting in more impact and strain on the joints. So yes the best way to stop it is build muscle and riding more is a great way to do that. Thinking about bending the knees more also has helped me.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Unowned View Post
...feeling very sore and unstable...
Your setup geometry sounds dialed in for your lower body, but do you get sore with a ~20 inch stance? Either way, the soreness/instability is probably muscle fatigue. Like others have said, you must build up your quads and stabilizers. HOw many seaons have you been riding, and what has your workout routine been over the last few years?

It's not always easy for everyone to get to the slopes, so here are some balance+squat exercises you could do:
Indo Board with Gretchen Bleiler at b project - YouTube
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dksmith17 View Post
My theory is similar to when I get knee pain from running. If I have pain its because I am not bending the knees as much as I should. I have found that if my quads are weak the body naturally compensates by not bending the knee, resulting in more impact and strain on the joints. So yes the best way to stop it is build muscle and riding more is a great way to do that. Thinking about bending the knees more also has helped me.
Are you sure you knee pain isn't a result in increased mileage thus causing runners knee?
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Sure more mileage is a potential cause but not necessarily the only cause. More milease usually means more muscle fatigue which means your body compensates by straightening the knee which leads to more joint pain (at least thats my theory). I have found if my legs are in shape beforehand I don't have problems with knee pain with heavy mileage increases.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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ride more build up the muscles and ice after riding.
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Originally Posted by Jaa View Post
Your setup geometry sounds dialed in for your lower body, but do you get sore with a ~20 inch stance? Either way, the soreness/instability is probably muscle fatigue. Like others have said, you must build up your quads and stabilizers. HOw many seaons have you been riding, and what has your workout routine been over the last few years?

It's not always easy for everyone to get to the slopes, so here are some balance+squat exercises you could do:
Indo Board with Gretchen Bleiler at b project - YouTube
this is probably it...i'm pretty new...this is my second season in and i've only recently started trying to jump every single thing on the mountain...though my thought that cross training would've helped this
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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ive been riding rome 390 bosses with 2 degrees cant this year, 5'6"/29" inseam with a ~21" stance (widened from last year from <20")...getting soreness with inner-side of my knees. If I ride a few days continuously, they start feeling very sore and unstable...

Does increasing the cant put more stress on the innerside of the knees? Trying to figure out what I should do to tweak the setup...

my angles are 15,-12

Thanks
Yes, canting can cause knee problem for some people. That feeling of pain and instability on the inner side of your knees is your MCL (medial collateral ligament) being stretched (i.e. slightly torn) and is a BAD THING (ligaments, while slightly flexible should never stretch). I'm 5'9", 30" inseam with a ~21" stance and 15/-15 and had to go back to 0* cants on my Rome 390 Boss for the same reason as you.

I strongly recommend stop using cants until you can fix the muscle tightness and imbalances in your legs (i.e. go see a physical therapy or a physical trainer to get you assessed). Canted binding can and do work for a lot of people, but some people's muscles/joints can't handle it. I ended up tearing both MCLs in two successive seasons until I figured it all out (most people don't know about this stuff because they've never had to).

Here is a quick video showing you one type of assessment. If you are off-balance or wobbly then you definitely have some issues... even you are not obviously wobbly at the knee... you still might have issues that maybe only a trained professional might be able to see or might show up in a different assessment:



More info:
In flexible muscles are also weak muscles under certain situations. When I say inflexible, I don't mean joint hyper-mobility that you see in yogi and gymnasts - I am referring the to muscle's ability to smoothly lengthen while it is contracting. This is known as eccentric contraction and is really important when avoiding injuries because typically you are absorbing a big force/landing you muscle needs to be flexible enough to absorb that force. If it is tight, it will at certain points in your range of motion stiffen or give out and then sudden all of that remaining force goes into your joints and you often can get injured. You might be able to leg press or squat 500 lbs, but if your muscles are inflexible (whether due to tightness or obstruction via tough fibrotic tissue) at certain points in your range of motion you will feel your muscle tense really hard and then have "fall out" where it gives out a little bit until it suddenly can fire again.

But even with this, we are really just strangers on the internet. I highly recommend you go see a "trained professional" in your area and find out for yourself.

Last edited by lonerider; 12-30-2011 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dksmith17 View Post
Sure more mileage is a potential cause but not necessarily the only cause. More milease usually means more muscle fatigue which means your body compensates by straightening the knee which leads to more joint pain (at least thats my theory). I have found if my legs are in shape beforehand I don't have problems with knee pain with heavy mileage increases.
Heavy mileage increase what's that? You should only go up by 10% which is a pretty large jump when you are running 40+ miles a week. I don't know how many miles a week you run though. My legs are in great shape but a large jump still creates runners knee for myself.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lonerider View Post
Yes, canting can cause knee problem for some people. That feeling of pain and instability on the inner side of your knees is your MCL (medial collateral ligament) being stretched (i.e. slightly torn) and is a BAD THING (ligaments, while slightly flexible should never stretch). I'm 5'9", 30" inseam with a ~21" stance and 15/-15 and had to go back to 0* cants on my Rome 390 Boss for the same reason as you.

I strongly recommend stop using cants until you can fix the muscle tightness and imbalances in your legs (i.e. go see a physical therapy or a physical trainer to get you assessed). Canted binding can and do work for a lot of people, but some people's muscles/joints can't handle it. I ended up tearing both MCLs in two successive seasons until I figured it all out (most people don't know about this stuff because they've never had to).

Here is a quick video showing you one type of assessment. If you are off-balance or wobbly then you definitely have some issues... even you are not obviously wobbly at the knee... you still might have issues that maybe only a trained professional might be able to see or might show up in a different assessment:



More info:
In flexible muscles are also weak muscles under certain situations. When I say inflexible, I don't mean joint hyper-mobility that you see in yogi and gymnasts - I am referring the to muscle's ability to smoothly lengthen while it is contracting. This is known as eccentric contraction and is really important when avoiding injuries because typically you are absorbing a big force/landing you muscle needs to be flexible enough to absorb that force. If it is tight, it will at certain points in your range of motion stiffen or give out and then sudden all of that remaining force goes into your joints and you often can get injured. You might be able to leg press or squat 500 lbs, but if your muscles are inflexible (whether due to tightness or obstruction via tough fibrotic tissue) at certain points in your range of motion you will feel your muscle tense really hard and then have "fall out" where it gives out a little bit until it suddenly can fire again.

But even with this, we are really just strangers on the internet. I highly recommend you go see a "trained professional" in your area and find out for yourself.
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind...the soreness feels more like it is originating from soft tissue (tendon/ligament) rather than muscle. I was not riding with cants last year, and never had a problem with my inner knees...will try without them the next few times out.
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