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Old 08-06-2012, 10:07 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Seriously, the world today is all about having inside connections. I'm learning this more and more everyday, and when I think about it almost every good opportunity I've had has come from "knowing someone" who put in a good word or offered the direct opportunity. The days of having an accomplished resume and getting the job because you are the most qualified seem to be waning, which is why it's essential that in whatever you do you keep good relationships with people who have administrative power, and make an impression on them.

Getting a specific degree that is applicable towards snowboard R&D will not guarantee you anything, but a college degree is a great thing to have, and the experience will make you a much more intellectual person. If you do go to college, make sure you're making connections on the side and probably doing grunt work in the industry to get yourself known.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Whoa dude, settle down. No need to get all defensive. I think you took my points way too personal and a bit out of context.

I am not saying that your choice of work or career is irrelevant. What I am saying is that it is a mistake to wrap 100% of your self worth, fulfillment and happiness in your work.

I have seen people do this and situations arise, through no fault of their own, where they loose that job or career and literally go through hell as a result because that have NOTHING else that they can fall back on. All I am advocating is to maintain some sense of reasonable balance.

Additionally, you are taking a simple concept and running to a silly extreme with it. It is a far cry from understanding that a job is a "means to and end" to being unhappy and miserable. This isn't an either/or choice and making a financial decision to take a job that one is not giddy over because it affords the individual to pursue other things that fulfills them more is not a bad thing....

Sounds like you might need to think outside the box a bit more.......
Wolfie, I think it is you who is getting a bit defensive here - I just stated that I disagreed with what you wrote
And I stand by my points.

Your last post is some pretty serious backpedaling from the previous one:
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If you look to your "work" or "career" for your sense of fulfillment, you are paving a rough road ahead for yourself. Consider your "job" or "career" as a means to an end only.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Not sure if it matters, but I am 35.
SORRY hktrdr, I got your message mixed up with the OP'er, it was more directed at his age
My bad
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
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How? I think I said essentailly the same thing....

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Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
If you look to your "work" or "career" for your sense of fulfillment, you are paving a rough road ahead for yourself. Consider your "job" or "career" as a means to an end only.

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Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
I am not saying that your choice of work or career is irrelevant. What I am saying is that it is a mistake to wrap 100% of your self worth, fulfillment and happiness in your work.
I truly don't see how this is "back peddling" when I just basically repeated what I said....
Erm, those are two completely different (and to some degree contradictory) statements...

FWIW, I tend to agree with the second one.

Last edited by hktrdr; 08-06-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
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if work was fun it wouldn't be called work...
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HoboMaster View Post
Seriously, the world today is all about having inside connections. I'm learning this more and more everyday, and when I think about it almost every good opportunity I've had has come from "knowing someone" who put in a good word or offered the direct opportunity. The days of having an accomplished resume and getting the job because you are the most qualified seem to be waning, which is why it's essential that in whatever you do you keep good relationships with people who have administrative power, and make an impression on them.

Getting a specific degree that is applicable towards snowboard R&D will not guarantee you anything, but a college degree is a great thing to have, and the experience will make you a much more intellectual person. If you do go to college, make sure you're making connections on the side and probably doing grunt work in the industry to get yourself known.
If I may butt in here...I think Hobo said it right.

Regardless, bottom line is you should set yourself up to be happy. Ask yourself what that means and how you can achieve it.

But don't necessarily think that trying to break into the snowboard business as a R+D or board maker will make you happy. One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was to "open your mind to your goals" There are many ways to get what you want.

On another note, nowadays most young people jumping into the workforce move all over before finding their niche. That means moving up and down the ladder, sideways and even jumping off and starting new.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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No they are not. In the first statement, I said that if you look to your work or career for your sense of fulfillment, you were paving yourself a hard road.

The second statement is a clarification on the first statement as a result of your misinterpreting my meaning. I still maintained that it was a mistake to look at your work as your source of fulfillment. Instead of accepting my stated intent and clarification of meaning, you now want to argue what my actual intent was as if you somehow can read my mind.

Not going to get into a pissing match with you because you feel some need to prove your opinion outweighs mine or anothers but don't claim to know better than I what my intent was.....

EDIT:

Like I said, not dissing your opinion or your values; I totally respect them. I am just pointing out that they might not apply to everyone out there. I for one strongly believe it is important to not put all the eggs in one basket but that is just me and it MAY apply to the OP.
Sorry, but that is bullshit. What you are saying now is a significant departure from your first post ('Consider your "job" or "career" as a means to an end only.' (emphasis mine)). It might not have been your original intent, but it is what you wrote.
No need to obfuscate or deny it - you are better than that.

In either case, I respect your opinion - even if I disagree with it. I am not attacking your view, let alone you. Just like you, I am just expressing an opinion. And I am certainly not claiming that my opinion outweighs yours - or anybody else's for that matter. What gives you that idea?

Finally, at no point did I posit that work was the only (potential) source of happiness and fulfillment or that anybody should Ďput all the eggs in one basketí. Please do not put words in my mouth. Again, you are better than that.

Anyway, we certainly have gone well OT and I do not think we are addressing the OPís issue any longer
I will let this rest.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It's all who you know.
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It would be mechanical, chemical, and material science engineers who do all the R&D for that stuff. The scientists develop the theoretical stuff, but it is the engineers who put those theories into practice. If you really enjoy physics, I highly recommend going into mechanical engineering. It uses a lot of physics, but it is also one of the most versatile engineering degrees and allows you to go into a number of different fields.
As for getting into the industry, do internships/co-ops while you are in school for companies in the industry you want to work in. That is the best way to get a job once you graduate, because the you will have an "in" with at least one company and also have experience and know people in that industry as well. And don't worry about how much you get paid during your internship (if at all, but most engineering internships actually pay pretty well) because any experience you get will more than pay for itself once you graduate.
I'm speaking from experience here, I graduated from the University of Michigan in mechanical engineering, and I also loved physics in high school.
This is the best advice in this thread imo.

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Hktrdr,
If I may, how old are you.
Yea I think you meant to ask the OP, which is a good question I was wondering.

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Originally Posted by sheepstealer View Post
If I may butt in here...I think Hobo said it right.

Regardless, bottom line is you should set yourself up to be happy. Ask yourself what that means and how you can achieve it.

But don't necessarily think that trying to break into the snowboard business as a R+D or board maker will make you happy. One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was to "open your mind to your goals" There are many ways to get what you want.

On another note, nowadays most young people jumping into the workforce move all over before finding their niche. That means moving up and down the ladder, sideways and even jumping off and starting new.

So i think SW and hktrdr here are kinda talking across each other and not actually on the same points, in terms of kinds of jobs, where you are at in them timewise, the way you each personally emote to your jobs, etc, this is a multifaceted argument.

For me, for example, the most pressing issue with this guy is age. My motivation to work 15 or 20 years ago was much different than it is now. Even though I have been in the same field, only in the last 2 or 3 years have I really come into my own, and its a whole new ballgame. Not to mention its one of the best choices aside from being pro or spoiled if you just wanna ride a shitload. (I'm speaking of the restaurant industry, I cook, make sushi, am the boss of my kitchen so I work whenever I'm not riding and hiking).

The answers here are just so many choices. How is the OP's work ethic? Is it inborn? Learned? The carreer choice for people who were in college with me 20 years ago taking pre-med, who went straight to med school, then became DR.s is going to be such a different point of view than that of a truck driver, hammer swinger or fish cutter (I drove a 24 foot box truck during summers in college and also roofed from like '97-'03 hehe). For some people its about money. Others its about kids. Others snowboarding.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Sorry, but that is bullshit. What you are saying now is a significant departure from your first post ('Consider your "job" or "career" as a means to an end only.' (emphasis mine)). It might not have been your original intent, but it is what you wrote.
No need to obfuscate or deny it - you are better than that.

In either case, I respect your opinion - even if I disagree with it. I am not attacking your view, let alone you. Just like you, I am just expressing an opinion. And I am certainly not claiming that my opinion outweighs yours - or anybody else's for that matter. What gives you that idea?

Finally, at no point did I posit that work was the only (potential) source of happiness and fulfillment or that anybody should Ďput all the eggs in one basketí. Please do not put words in my mouth. Again, you are better than that.

Anyway, we certainly have gone well OT and I do not think we are addressing the OPís issue any longer
I will let this rest.

Always funny how the person being a douche feels the need to write out a condescending post and end it with "I will let this rest"

Keep feeding that ego
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm going to give you the gods honest truth about the snowboard industry from someone that's paid his dues, worked his ass up from the most grunt level, has done product development with companies, marketing, blah blah blah. This goes out to all you people thinking you know as well.

If you're going to be in the snowboard industry don't be in it because you wanted a "fun" job and you think it'll be cool. We have enough dumb fucks like that which contribute absolutely nothing to it and are just clock punchers doing the 9 to 5. Literally this industry for most jobs functions on a Monday to Friday 9 to 5 work schedule, trade shows, and on snow demo's are a bit different.

Oh but no that's not how the snowboard industry surely is. They party, shred, and sell fun for a living it has to be great. Fuck no it's a job that sucks your soul clean and you never ride.

Average days on snow as of the end of January for 90% of the snowboard industry that I work with is somewhere between 1 and 10. Average days on snow for me since I worked retail and ran the website? Over 100. See the difference here. Average days my friends in R & D get in their first three years? Maybe 25 a year counting trips to Hood in the summer to finalize product.

It is all who you know and what you can give them. Oh you have a college degree, cool, so does the kid sitting next to you, and the one next to him. But see that guy with the long hair, untucked shirt, and lack of professionalism? Yeah that guy over there was a pro, am, regional rider, shop kid, friend of a TM, friend of a rep, etc. etc. He worked in a shop, did some R&D and has 0 book learning in any capacity. He actually taught himself what he needs to know, this is the guy that's going to get the job over any of you. It gets even better if he has all that and then went to college and has a degree in mechanical engineering and what not. See Sean Tedore head designer for Capita for example or Paul McGinty from Ride.

Now you want to talk about necessary evils, we live in a capitalist economy a job is that evil to afford a life. But the fact that a job is somehow dictated as being what makes or breaks a person is bullshit. Some people it is, some people it isn't it's all in your choices in life. I'm not a rich man by any means in sense of money but I will say this I clocked more pow days while you were sitting in an office and that's priceless.

If you want a career that has you working more than living that's your choice and if you get joy from it cool, if you don't once again it's your choice. Me personally I realized at a young age that I would do whatever it took to snowboard as much as I can. I look around at my friends that shared those same goals. Ones divorced with a kid and works at a local garage as a shitty mechanic, another is a tile setter with 3 kids, 1 almost made it to being super pro then blew himself out and is now doing the PGA thing and killing it, another works in the marketing department at a resort riding over 150 days a year, and then there's me my choices have allowed me to shred more days a year than all of you people arguing combined, I work with hundreds of companies on various product development from boots to boards and outerwear, I've seen my ideas used in countless boards that bring people satisfaction. Maybe I'm an exception or maybe it was those career choices at 15 years old that paved the way for me to be able to do what I want.

The truth is the snowboard industry is high school, it's small, we all know each other, we don't like outsiders, degrees, education, etc. etc. don't mean shit to us. It's who you know, what you bring to the table by knowing these people, and a harder work ethic than a cubicle jockey punching keys trying to make it to the next day. 90% of all people in the industry got their start in a shop at some level and that retail floor position is valued more than people will admit.
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