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Old 12-13-2012, 12:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Idk, around the here there are ropes and then there are ROPES...some places ducking the rope will get you dead...the locals know but tourist don't. There are also gates and warnings....alot of it depends...avy gear, locals, patrol vs sar. Last saturday when skinning out the unattended gate there was a big warning sign. However there were a fair amt of shoers, bpackers and some skiers with out any avy gear and certainly no passes/lift tickets. I'd imagine those folks are doing so at their own risk, without any expectation of ski patrol rescue or assistance and hopefully they understand that its only their judgement and perhaps the good will of other folks who are present and enjoying the bc.

I think that if patrol sees you ducking and coming back in and you have avy gear and appear to know what ur doing its not an issue....however, if not, then they probably will do the riot act or at least abit of stern education. Though again there are areas/runs that are closed off (high avy danger) and you could go through the trees and end up being in a closed area...patrol would not be happy and they would get you coming out and clip your ticket...but these are roped areas with additional closed signs on the sticks and hard to miss. My observation is that locals and patrol can easily see if a person knows what they are doing and where they are going...and if a person looks to be in over their head or going in the wrong direction they will yell, warn and call patrol. Locals know if there is an area not being ridden then there is a good reason. Besides the hill having a rep of being a reasonably hazardous....there are fools that are unawares and have poor judgement.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I understand deadfall and that you could possibly stick a board but IMO there are a lot more dangerous situations you can encounter at a crowded resort. If you know what you're doing I would argue it's impossible to stick a board under a log. When we were "caught" we were literally 3' the other side of the rope.
Now my question is as I understand it most of the summit county (all?) resorts are US fores service land. If you skinned up the mountain, would the same rules apply to you? What if you accessed roped off backcountry terrain from the top of the mountain but didn't use a lift to get there?
"I would argue that is impossible"....um, no it isn't. No matter how good of a rider one is in the trees. While I would agree that it is less likely for a snowboarder. To ignore the danger of snapping of your leg is not being very aware of inherent risks of riding in the trees. It is like saying that a slope won't slide after digging a snow pit and coming to the conclusion that just because your pack test didn't fail that the slope won't fracture when you are riding on it. This type of rationalization is very dangerous.
As far as roped of terrain I think that even if you skin up and access backcountry through resort boundaries the patrol can take action to stop you. I believe they can do this just like when there is a wildfire and prevent entry due to safety concerns. Typically a resort won't tangle with a person unless the danger is very real. Resorts don't just make the call on roped of terrain for the fun of it. Yea patroller's can be uptight. But would you want to find someone dead or injured. Would you want to be the one to break the news to someone's family. If they were being real dicks they could have just taken your passes and 86'd you from the resort. Yea some of them get a little power mad. But they sure are nice to have there when you or someone you know needs them.

To find out for sure why not write and email or letter to your local Forest Service and BLM offices to find out for sure. You also should be able to find the lease agreements with resorts online I think.

Here is a link that might prove interesting. Pay attention to where it says forest closures.
http://summitcountyvoice.com/2011/02/27/colorado-new-backcountry-access-at-breckenridge-ski-area/
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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okay so my google-fu is failing. What is deadfalling? Is it the same as getting caught in a tree well?
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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okay so my google-fu is failing. What is deadfalling? Is it the same as getting caught in a tree well?
deadfall are trees that are dead and have fallen to the ground.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Colorado law is pretty clear on this one. Going through the trees and accessing a run that is closed is against the law. I've been popped on this one too. If the run is roped off from the usual access point than it's closed. End of story.

Yes there can be avalanche danger. Especially right now. Shit is so freakin' touchy. I've already set off several avalanches testing slopes from a safe spot at Bert. 5 to be exact. It didn't take much effort either. Not enough to bury a person, but you'd be dragged over rocks, logs, and such. Not fun.

So ducking ropes at resorts. Yes I do it when I ride resorts. I also know the terrain I am going after and have a good idea if it's risky or not. Lot's of places at Copper where the snow depth is the main issue right now. There are a few spots that can and do slide. This is very early season right now and the pack where it hasn't been controlled is touchy to say the least. I might duck a rope, but the reality is I'd probably just ride the rope line. It's thin, and one fall in the wrong spot could easily end your season. Even the backcountry I did at Bert, I opted to walk out of a spot where I usually ride, due to the thin snowpack. Not interested in being laid up while the snow is just getting good.

To each his own though. If you get caught by ski patrol your responses should be very apologetic. "Yes sir, I am sorry sir, I won't do it again sir" or Ma'am depending on who is busting your ass. Also it means you broke the golden rule. "Don't get caught". Which was your first mistake anyway.

Ski patrol would have been perfectly within their rights to take your pass. Don't forget that. Nothing you could have done.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Colorado law is pretty clear on this one. Going through the trees and accessing a run that is closed is against the law. I've been popped on this one too. If the run is roped off from the usual access point than it's closed. End of story.

Yes there can be avalanche danger. Especially right now. Shit is so freakin' touchy. I've already set off several avalanches testing slopes from a safe spot at Bert. 5 to be exact. It didn't take much effort either. Not enough to bury a person, but you'd be dragged over rocks, logs, and such. Not fun.

So ducking ropes at resorts. Yes I do it when I ride resorts. I also know the terrain I am going after and have a good idea if it's risky or not. Lot's of places at Copper where the snow depth is the main issue right now. There are a few spots that can and do slide. This is very early season right now and the pack where it hasn't been controlled is touchy to say the least. I might duck a rope, but the reality is I'd probably just ride the rope line. It's thin, and one fall in the wrong spot could easily end your season. Even the backcountry I did at Bert, I opted to walk out of a spot where I usually ride, due to the thin snowpack. Not interested in being laid up while the snow is just getting good.

To each his own though. If you get caught by ski patrol your responses should be very apologetic. "Yes sir, I am sorry sir, I won't do it again sir" or Ma'am depending on who is busting your ass. Also it means you broke the golden rule. "Don't get caught". Which was your first mistake anyway.

Ski patrol would have been perfectly within their rights to take your pass. Don't forget that. Nothing you could have done.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. We were obviously very apologetic. Snow depth was the issue, but again I felt safe enough if I kept the nose of the board up. It's funny you talk about the golden rule... I kept an eye out all day, and didn't see a single red coat. As soon as I stopped looking. BAM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I do it here at my local resort(Brighton) to access private land in the sidecountry but it's not an avy danger issue....hell the vast majority of those people don't even live here in the winter and it's fun riding through their back yards and dropping onto the main road at the end of the day for a quick 5 minute walk back to the car.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Slide Danger is off the FUCKING HOOK RIGHT NOW. If you know anything about BC or snowpack (which relatively I don't) you would know better than to ride anywhere out of bounds right now. The last week 20 inches have fallen on loveland and there are cracks and slides to the ground EVERYWHERE. The same I have heard for Berthoud, cracked and scary as fuck.

Ski Patrol Saved Your Life.

Or keep doing what u do.

A kid died at Vail this time last year doing the same shit.

disclaimer: you are probably more experienced than I, but I was really shocked by all the small slides straight to bare ground all over Loveland today, but getting dragged across boulders and into trees in shallow snow sounds like a real bore. Also hung with a buddy today we know as Backcountry Rob, from which any insight that might be in this post is probably regurgitated. Plus Killclimbz really doesn't need to be followed in any of these threads....sorry

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Old 12-15-2012, 09:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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deadfall are trees that are dead and have fallen to the ground.
I figured this one out but "Skin up a hill or Skinning" as Snowolf mentioned. This refers to walking or hiking up the hill I'm guessing??

I learn a lot just reading stuff like this. Midwest bunny hills compared to your mountains I would never run into this. But I am wanting to take a trip with my boys at sometime so this is all knowledge shoved into the brain reserves.
I guarantee we are just groom, maybe, tree riders. Still good reads...
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:21 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Regarding policies about skinning in a resort. It all depends upon the nature of the negotiated lease with the forest service and as Shredlife and I discovered talking to a patroller where we ride, the country that the resort and national forest area is in.

At Meadows, they do not allow ANY uphill travel AT ALL regardless if open or not as long as the resort is operating for the season because of grooming, avy control and other equipment operations. Off season, it reverts to standard national forest policy. In addition, if you skin up above Meadows to shred Wy East Face on Mt. Hood, you also cannot re enter and ride in the resort on the way down. You must stay out of the resort entirely.

Now, Timberline a few miles away, also on Mt. Hood National Forest, does allow uphill travel even when operating and has established climbing routes. You are also allowed to ride lifts and exit anywhere (no official gates) and can re enter the resort after a climb up on Hood. The only they ask is that riders stay on the off piste terrain after hours and grooming because they conduct a lot of race camps and don`t want the fresh corduroy carved up and then have it freeze with ruts in it (got bitched at for this when I did`nt know...never done it again and had cat drivers thank me)

The difference in policies according the patroller we talked to has to do with the fact that two resorts are in different counties. Meadows is in Hood River County and their RCW code is different that Clackamas county where Timberline is.

So as you can see the policies can vary greatly between resorts and it all has to do with how their special use permit and lease is worded.

Also, it is erroneous to assume that just because someone is skinning in the back country that they know what they are doing. Sadly, I see way more dumbfucks out there without a fucking clue than I do trained people.
Thanks, I guess I need to talk to the people at Copper and Winter Park. I plan on doing a decent amount of this after my Avy class
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