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NY Times Article: Has Snowboarding Lost Its Edge?

9K views 55 replies 35 participants last post by  RVM 
#1 ·
Hey Y'all,
Someone sent me a link to the following article from the NYTimes in which the author claims that snowboarding is "losing its edge." I figured I would post and get everybody fired up a little bit before the weekend. :D

Here is the link:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/travel/has-snowboarding-lost-its-edge.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&

The general thesis that this guy seems to make (and I fully suspect that he may very well be a gaper), is that the sport is falling off because, I kid you not, riders that started during the boom years of the 90's are now in their 30's and are focusing on families and careers instead of snowboarding.

For me, I say good riddance. I am 31 and I make it to the mountain at least four times/week. What's their excuse? They are too busy to ride because they are giving their boss a rimjob so that they can get the big promotion? If toolbags are focusing on climbing the corporate ladder instead of riding, then they weren't true riders in the first place.

As a rider, I am not at all bothered by the fact that the masses are no longer descending upon the mountain to learn the "new fad" that they saw on the Olympics. Most of them don't make it through the first lesson anyway. I say keep the sport pure, and if it means that less of us are doing it, so be it. Personally, I am not a supporter of the "more the merrier" club. There are already way too many assholes on trails and in terrain parks that have minimal riding skills and fuck it up for those of us that know what the hell we are doing. We keep our renegade edge if the community is small. Those that really want to learn for the right reasons will always find the sport. Those that don't, I say don;t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

So, what does everybody think?
 
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#2 ·
^ Your thoughts are stupid. Less people = less money which = higher cost. Don't know about you but I really don't want to see $150 day tickets here, pricepoints jumping another 50 to 100 dollars on gear, and my pro friends having to sign with shitty brands because they can't make the money they deserve.
 
#3 ·
This has to be one of the dumbest, loaded opinions that I have read in a long while. I'm sure that most people will agree that they'd rather have job security, be able to provide for their families, and not have to struggle to make ends meet than to be able to board a few more days out of the week.

As for the comment of people with minimal riding skills, not everyone starts out at T Rice's current skill level. All people start out as beginners with little to no knowledge and they progress.
 
#7 ·
This has to be one of the dumbest, loaded opinions that I have read in a long while. I'm sure that most people will agree that they'd rather have job security, be able to provide for their families, and not have to struggle to make ends meet than to be able to board a few more days out of the week.

As for the comment of people with minimal riding skills, not everyone starts out at T Rice's current skill level. All people start out as beginners with little to no knowledge and they progress.
Word. Quoted and bolded for truth.


Funny about the "true riders" piece in the original post. To consider yourself a "true rider" yet get all butt-hurt over a measly article...:dunno:
 
#5 ·
nice contribution to the forum, but seems like a slow news day at NYT.

I snowboard for me...don't care much for what's trendy. My boards aren't the norm and, even though I can (currently) afford the most premium equipment, my outerwear is medium-low end, my goggles even lower. It's just stuff that is the most functional for me/my local conditions. As long as it's still dumping snow and my mountain is still taking me to the top, I don't care what anyone else is doing.
 
#6 ·
The author is actually a fairly well known adventure journalist and has written for a number of well known outdoor magazines/publications including Outside Magazine. I'm guessing he probably skis/rides and he probably has some decent connections in the adventure-sport world so I do not doubt the statistics he throws out.

Still, at the end of the day its pure speculation.

I can think of a number of reasons why the article might be true. Like the article says, snowboarding has always held a "younger" generation (no offense to the older guys on here, this is just a hypothesis). Would it be safe to say that over the last several years snowboarding has declined due to the economy falling out and younger people deciding to forego lift tickets, rentals, lessons, transportation costs, etc? Just an idea.
 
#10 ·
Fuck you all. Snowboard or die. I agree with the OP, people that keep the industry going are those who sacrifice things in life so they can ride... I am the same, heck i even quit a job to go snowboarding... it was a shitty job but non the less. Real snowboarders are those who life for it, not shitty gear reviewers that complain about the costs and pro friends who cant afford to snowboard....
I would much rather work a shitty ass job that fucked me up my ass so i could board every day, then worry about the promotion... If you care about your family you might want to get your priorities straight.... LOL, wut? i dont know.... felt like stating a bunch of bullshit. But seriously, i love snowboarding and nobody will stand in my way....

End of retarder rant, shit storm initiating.... 3.... 2.... 1....
 
#13 ·
The people that keep the industry going are the people that are able to AFFORD the products and services that drive the growth of the snowboarding industry, not through the shitty jobs so you speak of that allows you to barely cover the cost of rent let alone be able to purchase the gear and services that companies depend on to thrive through profits.
 
#12 ·
For me, I say good riddance. I am 31 and I make it to the mountain at least four times/week. What's their excuse? They are too busy to ride because they are giving their boss a rimjob so that they can get the big promotion? If toolbags are focusing on climbing the corporate ladder instead of riding, then they weren't true riders in the first place.
That's great that you have a job with a lot of flexibility, most people don't. For the average Ameircan a work week consists of 40 hours between Monday and Friday. This only leaves a total of two days for that individual to partake in a hobby. I, like the average American work a standard Monday through Friday work week. As much as I would love to spend the entire weekend on the mountain (which I have already done multiple times this year), I cannot do it every weekend. Somtimes I am limited to one trip a week, or if something important is going on that weekend I might not even make it to the mountain :eek:hmy:.

I've been boarding for 12 years, and absolutely love the sport, but let's face it, snowboarding for me is a hobby. Somtimes real life takes precedent over hobbies. If that doesn't make me a "true rider" then so be it, but to me it sounds like your opinion of a "true rider" is someone with no job that just snowboards all day living off their parents and stickin' it to the man. That's not me. I would like to note; however, that I have never given my boss a rimjob.
 
#15 ·
Personally, I would rather a mountain be covered by a bunch of snowboarders than a bunch of skiers, so I would probably be disinclined to agree that fewer snowboarders is a good thing. I never have a problem with other snowboarders, but skiers however, don't even get me started (I'm generalizing here of course, based on personal experiences).

I say our mission is not to weed out the newcomers (of which I sorta am having started only a couple years ago) and instead should be to convert non-riders into riders and skiers into riders to overrun them on the mountain.
 
#17 ·
Sadly it's probably because of the economy. GENERALLY speaking, skiing is still seen as a more fluid classy sport associated with the high/middle class. As big as snowboarding is now, i think it's more casual. A lot if riders I know have good jobs and rude for fun, rather than also getting brought up in those family ski weekends.

Point is, if the upper half if the social class primarily skis, which may be a safe assumption, and all price point are going up, skiing and riding has become significantly more expensive. And if more riders than skiers are opting to spend there money elsewhere, rather than on weekend trips, that'd explain it to me.

Ride as much as you can. It's good for the soul. But the whole ski/snowboard separation hate is just lame nowadays. Who cares if there's more skiers than riders. We're all there tk enjoy the day
 
#18 ·
Ride as much as you can. It's good for the soul. But the whole ski/snowboard separation hate is just lame nowadays. Who cares if there's more skiers than riders. We're all there tk enjoy the day
Yeah I know. My comment just stemmed from the fact that I've had many more negative encounters in terms of near crashes, rude behavior, etc directed at me by skiers than snowboarders. At the end of the day, you're right, we're all there to enjoy it and the more demand for snowsports in general, the more likely we are to see new hills open up, places expand, etc. so we'd all benefit.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Well fuck me, that caused the shitstorm of all shitstorms…..anyway, let me clarify a bit to keep the flames at bay. I wrote the damn thing in the heat of the moment after reading the article and getting pissed at the fact that the author seemed to imply that snowboarding was dying a slow death solely due to the fact that former riders were staying home and slaving behind a desk instead of pursuing their hobby. Don’t know why I got so fired up about a NY Times article, but I guess it has been one of those days.

I think the thing that gets me is that I have plenty of friends that sit around all day in an office, come home, watch t.v. for hours, and then go to bed. Rinse and repeat, and that is their life. I think the bigger issue here is a commentary on the state of leisure activities in this country in general. Stats continue to show that Americans spend much less time pursuing leisure activities and far more time connected to their offices as compared other workers in the industrialized world, especially with the advent of cellphones, computers, pagers, and the like. I think that is what pisses me off. As a country, I think we are a bit too obsessed with our careers to the detriment of our passions, and yes, by extension, our families. Some of my fondest memories are from when I was a kid and my dad and I went skiing at the local mountains. That is what we need to get back to. I work a five day a week, 40 hour job as do most people, but I also make time for my interests. I don’t have any kids, but if I did, I would be taking them with me to the mountain and teaching them how to ride.

We absolutely need to keep more people on the mountain, but we need return visitors more than anything else, not just people that come to try it for the day and never come back. We especially need young people to keep riding but of course that also requires parents that have enough free time to take them to the mountain. I want new people to learn the sport, and gapers will always be gapers, but I just think this is going to be difficult to do in the bullshit, cutthroat, capitalist-competitive paradigm that we live in where workers aren’t paid their fair share, and time off is more of a luxury than a right. As others have noted, this is especially true in this current piece of shit economy where many workers are held hostage by their jobs.

That is what the article was hinting at, it is where my frustration lies, and that is what I was trying to discuss as well. Sorry if I offended, it certainly wasn’t my intent to piss anybody off.
 
#21 ·
I think this just boils down to the fact that you have lazy friends and it's time to make some new ones.

Instead of spending the day watching hours of TV after work, they could be doing something more productive.
Hell...after working 10 hours in the office, I still drive up to the slopes to get a few hours in at the park before going back home to pass out, it's just all about where your priorities are.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Its a combination of factors, but I'd guess that the current state of the economy is to blame.

Snowboarders tend to be younger. If you don't live within driving distance (8 hours or less, say) of a slope then it is BIG dollars to snowboard.

A trip with 3 days worth of riding out west would cost me a minimum of $600-$700, and that is only if I found $200 airfare,a resort with $65 lift tickets (Loveland?), and ~$50 a night lodging. I already own my own gear, so a new rider might spend another $400 more. Atlanta is a big airline hub, so it is probably cheaper to fly from here than many other places.

In contrast, If I lived close to a hill, $600-$700 would buy me a season pass to one or two of them.

Spending most of your rent on a 3 day winter vacation is less and less a viable option with disposable incomes falling in the USA.

The 20-somethings who would ordinarily replace the now-30-somethings on the hill have having very hard times finding decent jobs, which is why less of them have the cash to learn to snowboard.

Bicycles are cheap. PS3's are cheap, even booze-filled road trips to Savannah for St. Patty's or New Orleans for Mardi Gras are cheap compared to snowboarding regularly.

If/when the economy improves, numbers will go back up... unless global warming starts melting all the snow off the mountain!
 
#24 ·
That's exactly what I thought when I read the NYT article earlier. The wages for entry level jobs has been stagnate for a long time. I remember when I got my first 10/hour job(early 90's), at the time most of my friends were making 4-5/hr. I was in hog heaven, by the time that job got shipped to Mexico, I was making 18/hr. My son has been working the same place for 2 years now and just got a "raise" to 9.50/hr, and most around here still think 10/hour is a good job. I don't really see how the hell anyone gets by on 10/hr these days, things are at least 3 times as much as back in my day.

Beyond that I found this little gem from the L.A. Times, it claims older people are switching back to skiing because it's easier on the body :icon_scratch:

Snowboarding craze cools as new designs make skiing easier - latimes.com
 
#25 ·
Here's my favorite quote from the article...

"One reason may be that snowboarding simply doesn’t have the rebel cachet that it once did. Skiing has appropriated everything from snowboarding’s swagger to its trendy clothing to technology like fat skis. Simply put, it’s cool to be on two planks again."

Oh god no. No it isn't. Like rollerblades vs. skateboards this recent surge of young kids wanting to ski instead of board will soon pass.

Or maybe we'll end up with another generation of kids that grew up skiing, and switched to boarding when they get bored on two planks?!? :dunno:
 
#48 ·
Here's my favorite quote from the article...

"One reason may be that snowboarding simply doesn’t have the rebel cachet that it once did. Skiing has appropriated everything from snowboarding’s swagger to its trendy clothing to technology like fat skis. Simply put, it’s cool to be on two planks again."

Oh god no. No it isn't. Like rollerblades vs. skateboards this recent surge of young kids wanting to ski instead of board will soon pass.
I think there's something in this. Snowboarding is great - especially in powder - but let's be honest here, you can do everything on skis now too (probably more, and faster). In Europe, at least, snowboarding is no longer "cooler" than skiing.

I know a few very good multi-discipline folk who have opted for skis and only really bring their boards out for heavy powder surf days. They insist skis are just easier and more flexible.
 
#28 ·
As far as the cost of the sport is concerned, who cares if it's snowboarders or skiers? The resorts charge the same amount. Interestingly the article doesn't seem to come right out and say that total numbers are down, although the numbers they do reference would indicate that.

I have heard teenagers say that they are skiing to do something different. So like Microsoft, snowboarding has gone from being the plucky upstart to being the evil empire. :blink:
 
#29 ·
I find young people switching to skiing odd. I wonder if they have a background in other board sports? I started snowboarding when I was 13. It seemed like the natural thing to do because I also skateboarded and dabbled a little in surfing. Skiing was always out of the question because that background.

Additionally only nerds skied in the 90s.
 
#31 ·
Additionally only nerds skied in the 90s.
I think the switch is where Poutanen and I disagree. Nerds aren't the only skiers now because you can rock the same snowboarder style.

I'm not sure how to respond to the article because while I do agree that snowboarding has lost a lot of its "rebel cachet," it has simultaneously become way more accessible to the average person. Which is important because that helps the economic side of things, and why it seems really silly to me to worry about what it means to be "core." Especially if we want to see the snowboard industry grow and innovate.
 
#32 ·
Ever since I became financially secure (I am 40), I have been pigging out on snowboard gear. For years I couldn't afford it and just stayed away. Now I cannot get enough. Started last year after a 10-11 year hiatus. Bet you I have spent at least 7500 on gear, passes and base lodge food for my daughter and I since January of last year. Pretty much have everything I need now. But if I see a Cobra on sale in February, just might pull the trigger. Its excessive, but it is a passion and I am hopelessly addicted. Have her in a snowboard lesson this Sunday with her girlfriend...there goes another 80 bucks plus 40 on beer and food for the dads. I chose snow instead of hot vacations. That money is my travel budget.
 
#33 ·
I think I'd rather be a tool-bag and continue climbing the ladder! I always worry about the future, luckily my career allows me to ride 3-4 week now. After climbing the ladder for a miserable 5-10 years I make a 6 figure salary and have way more free time. I don't fault anyone for pursing a career over riding everyday, or riding everyday over a career. Just do what feels good and works for you.

As far the article goes, I think its bullshit. Snowboarding is still very popular and alive. Tourism may have slightly decreased due to state of the economy but it'll pick back up. Summit county is still packed on the weekends, and it brings in a ton of money to keep the mountains going! Us season pass holders don't bring in the big bucks for the resorts.

Sincerely, a sell-out. :dunno:
 
#34 ·
As far the article goes, I think its bullshit. Snowboarding is still very popular and alive. Tourism may have slightly decreased due to state of the economy but it'll pick back up. Summit county is still packed on the weekends, and it brings in a ton of money to keep the mountains going! Us season pass holders don't bring in the big bucks for the resorts.

Sincerely, a sell-out. :dunno:
Summit County isn't hitting the numbers it was just three years ago. The pinch is being felt up here. My building had it's first foreclosure and I got to see a forced eviction by the sheriff this summer.

Businesses that haven't adapted are seeing numbers off by more than 40%.
 
#40 ·
The economy, increasing prices of lift tickets ($119(!) at Vail), lack of decent snow for the past few seasons (Colorado is what, at less than 60% average snow pack for the season currently). I think this all contributes.

Judging by my nephews and their friends, I think snowboarders tend more toward the budget side of things then their skiing peers too. They'd rather build a ramp in their backyard or do rails at school yard then pay for a ticket to do similar stuff at a resort.

MSN Money had a very similar article today.
 
#41 ·
Actually, I think Vail is $129 a day now.

As for budget of snowboarders vs. skiers - I think its much cheaper to snowboard. Top of the line snowboard boots cost what, $400 maybe $500? My skier buddy (actually, most of my friends are skiers here) just dropped $1700 on new boots. $1700. That's more than my rent in the Denver suburbs combined with my seasonal rent in the mountains. High end snowboards cost $600-700, almost all skis cost that much. Bindings are super expensive for skiers as well. Shit is crazy, actually.

That all said, I actually enjoy riding with skiers. Ever been in a flat and think... damn I'm gonna have to unstrap and start skating? With my skier buddies around, they'll be ahead of me and use their pole to slingshot me forward. Not that that's the only reason, but its definitely a plus.
 
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