Snowboarding going out of fashion - Page 4 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
SnowboardingForum.com is the premier Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-23-2013, 11:47 AM   #31 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 77
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyCH View Post
What I see happening is no one markets to people like me that take up the sport in middle age. There are a lot of us, people whose kids have grown, or at least are old enough to enjoy the hill also. My kid was born when I was 19, gave up skating at 20-21. Life happens, hard to do anything else when you work 50-60 hours a week to support a family.

Skiing has always been marketed to the older crowd and now has the double whammy of being cool too. #1 skier dad can now put jr. on skies and jr. can be happy playing in the park. Win win for skiing, not good for snowboarding. It's time for snowboarding to grow up, do you really think I want a deck with cartoon boobies on it? Do you think I'm going to buy some ugly ass neon plaid pants that hang to my knees? Fuck no! If I wanted the skater punk look from the 80' I'd spray paint a big fuck you on my deck. (pretty sure I had that exact graphic on numerous skates)

The whole underground, rebel, punk, core shit has to go. Look at any snowboard mag, it looks like a thrasher mag from the 80's. Look at skier mags, aimed right at people my age. WHY? Because we have the money, we buy the gear for our kids, we have the time to do things we enjoy. Go ahead and market to the hipster/core/radbromandude tweenies with no money, no vacation time, and forget skier dad who's footing the bill. Go ahead and make fun of us older folks because we know we are never going to be a pro, and just cruise groomers because it's fun.

Oh well, I could go on but no one listens to me anyway...skate n destroy fools
in a way i agree with you, but you phrased it wrong. i don't think underground/rebel/punk has to go anywhere, people will always express themselves in whatever way they want.

the issue here is not for the "image" to go away, but for the image to expand and include older folks. A company like Never Summer who caters to more of an adult audience, is a good example.

Other than that, I think this is a non-issue. I don't think that Snowboarding is "losing its edge" i think that skii has just gotten a slightly bigger edge than it had before and participation is basically leveling itself out. Instead of having mostly snowboarders out there, we now have an equal mix of participation. This is what happens when a sport starts to settle in. I don't think snowboarding is going anywhere. It is true that it can be quite expensive, but lift tickers are also expensive...the whole idea of a winter sport is expensive, especially for people like myself who don't live next to any major resorts.

What I hear from most people who want to learn snowboarding is that they don't want to buy any gear since they'll only use it 4 to 5 times a year. In a way it makes sense, but that's what's hurting the business. The casual observer who would like to learn, but doesn't want to invest in all of the gear beforehand and a big part of having fun while snowboarding is staying dry and warm (which costs a lot of money in gear).
mastershake is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-23-2013, 11:54 AM   #32 (permalink)
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Extremo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NH
Posts: 3,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
What don't you get? 5 day a year riders = rentals, people on low end equipment, or the ones that upgrade as needed. Those are the ones that pay full pop for lift tickets.

Day ticket here are 110 bucks these people will buy a 5 pack of those at 500 bucks. Season pass early season here is 550 these are the people that ride every day meaning the resort actually loses money on them.

Now if you look at gear purchases the season pass holders are less likely to pay full price for in line product as they have: pro form, buy last years, get a discount on gear from a shop for being local, or have a friend that can hook them up.

Now Johnny Gapeass breaks binding goes into shop and pays full price. He might ride a 10 year old deck with what you feel are whack angles but this is the guy that pays full pop for everything when he needs it or as he needs it.

It's a numbers game always has been. Why is it that you see more low mid level to entry level stuff on people than the $450 and up decks, $250 and up boots, and $200 range bindings? Simple the core group that has these boards targeted to them isn't the big spenders.

In order to sustain healthy growth you need to:
1. Get them young and support them early on while building the stoke. The more stoked a kid is on snowboarding at a young age the more likely they are to stick with it through and through. (Something snowboarding is not good at as most ski schools start snowboarding at age 7, skis as early as age 2)
2. Keep costs prohibitive. (Once again pricepoints have jumped again due to China realizing they are the super power and demanding higher wages, rising cost of oil for shipping, and the general global climate)
3. Learning curve which snowboarding has the hardest of all the snow sliding sports except possibly ski bikes and snow skates. Turning on skis in 1 day typically 3 days for snowboarding. Looking at the cost of rentals, ticket, and other ancillary gear it's an investment just to try.
4. Time. With all the people popping out babies and trying to make ends meet finding time is a luxury to these people. Sit in traffic there and back, stand in line, slide down the hill, pay money, etc. etc. or stay home fix the garage door, sleep, watch TV, etc. etc. We as a society have become more sedentary which also plays into it.

Core has always = poor and are not the people that support the whole scheme of snowboarding. Companies are only part of the equation you need to look at the economy, rising costs, time, distance, and health to understand why snowboarding has peaked. Season of 02 was the highest recorded visit of snowboarders and it's been declining ever since. It'll have its rise up and down from here on out but it's pretty much hit the plateau.

Now you can sit around and think your one sale of discount bindings or deck is keeping snowboarding alive or you can just realize you're the minority that doesn't make companies money.

It's a numbers game entry level sticks and rental/demo decks that's where companies make their money.
Yeah, I understand this, but if Jonny Gapeass is the hope of the industry, snowboarding is in some trouble.

When I was growing up (early to mid 90's) not one kid in my neighborhood didn't have a snowboard. We didn't ride resorts, we rode backyards, prep school hills, and golf courses. Now, nobody does. My son's going on 11 and he doesn't know anyone else in his grade that snowboards, affluent or not (quite a few ski). With all the second hand gear out there you'd think access to snowboarding would be easier than ever. You can get $100 board/binding/boot set ups all over craigslist. As a kid from a working class family who grew up on used (and relatively high priced) gear this would have been a dream. If poor = core, kids should be snowboarding every hill in the area, stealing street signs to jib up at the prep school. The spots that use to draw huge snowboard crowds every day after school when I was growing up now don't have a snowboarder in sight. Snowboard culture is suffering. And if Jonny Gapeass is going to be the face of the brand, I'm not sure too many people are going to follow.
Extremo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 12:03 PM   #33 (permalink)
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Extremo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NH
Posts: 3,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastershake View Post
in a way i agree with you, but you phrased it wrong. i don't think underground/rebel/punk has to go anywhere, people will always express themselves in whatever way they want.

the issue here is not for the "image" to go away, but for the image to expand and include older folks. A company like Never Summer who caters to more of an adult audience, is a good example.
Yup, snowboarding needs to be more inclusive. We need to keep attracting young kids who snowboard in their back yards as well as the winter sports enthusiasts looking for a new way to challenge themselves.
Extremo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 12:09 PM   #34 (permalink)
Land of the Potato
 
IdahoFreshies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Boise Idaho
Posts: 1,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extremo View Post
Yeah, I understand this, but if Jonny Gapeass is the hope of the industry, snowboarding is in some trouble.

When I was growing up (early to mid 90's) not one kid in my neighborhood didn't have a snowboard. We didn't ride resorts, we rode backyards, prep school hills, and golf courses. Now, nobody does. My son's going on 11 and he doesn't know anyone else in his grade that snowboards, affluent or not (quite a few ski). With all the second hand gear out there you'd think access to snowboarding would be easier than ever. You can get $100 board/binding/boot set ups all over craigslist. As a kid from a working class family who grew up on used (and relatively high priced) gear this would have been a dream. If poor = core, kids should be snowboarding every hill in the area, stealing street signs to jib up at the prep school. The spots that use to draw huge snowboard crowds every day after school when I was growing up now don't have a snowboarder in sight. Snowboard culture is suffering. And if Jonny Gapeass is going to be the face of the brand, I'm not sure too many people are going to follow.
I gotta say, you and BA are throwing out very compelling arguments from both sides here.


But I think I have to agree with the dwindling snowboard percentage. Im seeing it in the form of less people taking snowboarding lessons, and hearing what the trends are doing from the managers at the ski school. Last week we had a school night (schools from the valley come up to the hill) and there were 65 beginner skiiers and 29 beginner snowboarders. My manager was saying how 2 or 3 years ago that number would have been flipped, and that snowboard, specifically lessons, just keep going down.

I would also attribute that to snowboarding being harder, snowboarders start later (ski school starts at liek 3 or 4 where board school starts at 7) and parents are starting their kids out on skis because that is what the older generation does. And since skiing is cool too with those tall tees and twin tips and park riding kids are stoked to stick with it.
__________________
If you don't like the way I drive, stay off the sidewalk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShredLife View Post
do they even make chaps with asses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
I think they call them pants
IdahoFreshies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 12:31 PM   #35 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdahoFreshies View Post
I gotta say, you and BA are throwing out very compelling arguments from both sides here.


But I think I have to agree with the dwindling snowboard percentage. Im seeing it in the form of less people taking snowboarding lessons, and hearing what the trends are doing from the managers at the ski school. Last week we had a school night (schools from the valley come up to the hill) and there were 65 beginner skiiers and 29 beginner snowboarders. My manager was saying how 2 or 3 years ago that number would have been flipped, and that snowboard, specifically lessons, just keep going down.

I would also attribute that to snowboarding being harder, snowboarders start later (ski school starts at liek 3 or 4 where board school starts at 7) and parents are starting their kids out on skis because that is what the older generation does. And since skiing is cool too with those tall tees and twin tips and park riding kids are stoked to stick with it.

Im fine with snowboarding going lower in numbers. What i mind is that big companies will stick around while smaller dubs will go under. Why dont we all start making our own snowboards?

And theres always burton...
blunted_nose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 12:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
Resident poet
 
wrathfuldeity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bham
Posts: 3,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyCH View Post
What I see happening is no one markets to people like me that take up the sport in middle age. There are a lot of us, people whose kids have grown, or at least are old enough to enjoy the hill also. Go ahead and make fun of us older folks because we know we are never going to be a pro, and just cruise groomers because it's fun.

Oh well, I could go on but no one listens to me anyway...skate n destroy fools
There is a market for CORE geezers,...arcteryx, sled, cat, heli...but they are also getting pfs or have the cash and don't need it. However regular geezers....due to our experience of families and bills, we are rather savvy buyers. We may or not have more disposable income but I'd suspect we want functional quality more than bling shit. I'm a cheap sob and rarely buy anything new let alone at full msrp. However being a geezer does allow more choice via awareness/experience to pick, choose and spend less. This past summer I got the shit bc kit, all the tools and even an airbag...now I anticipate not spending much for quite a few years...beyond a season pass and could even forgo that and just hike and would only be buying gas.

Anyway besides the economy, less time/money, sedentary lifestyle trend....there is also less snow. Thus the scarcity factor is in play. I could safely say that, if I lived 3 hours away from the hill I would only go a few times a year if at all.

Snowboard vs skiers....it should be inclusive...with fatty twin free ski it's just a matter of preference. Skiers imho do have a better platform and equipment for all terrain and conditions except for deep poo but the fatties have nullified that snow condition. Yes skiing equip cost more and easier to learn but sb is less of an entry fee. Over the past 10 years I've seen both ebb and flow. Perhaps what is new is that us geezer boarders are getting older and there are more of us.

Thus we who take up the sport later are probably not going to buy highend shit because we won't use its capacity, but more so we value the experience of just being on the hill instead of having all the latest and greatest shit. At least for myself and the snowboard industry is not making much or any money off me.
__________________

Last edited by wrathfuldeity; 01-23-2013 at 12:48 PM.
wrathfuldeity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 01:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
Member
 
Engage_mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 94
Default

I love this message board!!

I think the article is headed in the correct direction when it speaks of the age range in which the sport got hot...Snowboarding is SOO young compared to the sport of skiing and I believe what keeps a sport (or what I usually am arguing about, a team loyalty) is time....
you figure with skiing there have been several generations now that have told themselves, " I am going to get my kids skiing with me on our future vacations." that 1 skier has now produced a flock of 3 kids that ski...as I now have my first child and have vowed to myself to get good enough on my snowboard to show her how to snowboard...(Although if she takes to skiing I'm cool with that as well ) So its up to us 30 + year olds that are raising children to get them "STOKED" on the sport for it to continue to grow...its all in TIMES hands I believe (IF this was already spoken about I'm sorry if I missed the reply but I can't read every single reply)
...Mr. Avenger...I always love your replies...you are a hell of a writer and I love to see your rants and logic behind each one
Engage_mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 07:02 PM   #38 (permalink)
Drunk with power...er beer.
 
Donutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,560
Blog Entries: 214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyCH View Post
Look at any snowboard mag, it looks like a thrasher mag from the 80's. Look at skier mags, aimed right at people my age. WHY? Because we have the money, we buy the gear for our kids, we have the time to do things we enjoy.
The comment about mags is an especially good one, and no-one's brought it up yet. I'm a bit of a magazine addict, but I only buy the snowboarding annual product showcase mags, because the rest of them are more about attitude than information. Haven't bought a ski mag in a long time, but they used to have useful articles like how-to's, personal anecdotes, yadda yadda.
__________________

I hate the parts between winter
Donutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 08:16 PM   #39 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Soggysnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Whistler
Posts: 164
Default

I'm finding you are missing another core group in your discussion.

The seasonaires.

They work minimum wage for the resort, spend their money in bars-own by the resort and buy their latest snowboard gear that they are crazy stoked on in the stores owned by the resort.

Tell me the resorts are not making money from this group...their paychecks are recycled and overdrawn.
Im not even talking about people who have been around for a season, many of those people come, stay and make it their lives, have kids and will survive on their measly wage to go snowboarding.


I know this, because I am one. I definitely keep the industry alive, when visitor hear how happy and stoked I am, they get stoked too. They go to the restaurants I recommend and drink at the bars I mention. They listen when I tell them who the best bootfitters are and where to get their new jackets from....

I think everyone keeps the industry alive. If the kids weren't about making things 'cool' then new people wouldn't get into the sport.
Once a skiier/snowboarder, hooked for life.
Soggysnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 09:12 PM   #40 (permalink)
t21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: mt.
Posts: 496
Default

If only someone can make snowboarding easier to learn we are good but seriously though, i think that is where losing some of new riders in this great snow sport. Skiing is easier to learn 'nuff said. My two grandsons(age 4 and 2) skis because its that simple. I also rent them gears at the resort because i cannot find a used ones yet on craiglistmoney well spent there. My niece (9 years old) skis, not sure if she wants to snowboard yet, she has friends that skis,no riders. Fat skis that are almost snowboard size are now more common on the market. One thing that skiing cannot take away from snowboarding in my opinion as a former skier is the 'FUN FACTOR'. It's just euphoric
__________________
2011 Ride Antic 163
2011 Status Focus 158
NX2-AT
FUSE-AT
t21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums