dzoo

Just wondering if it takes a long time to be able to ride down the mountain, under control, linking turns. I suppose this is a open question because everyone will be different. I was on a mountain for the first time over Thanksgiving, my kids are 22, 20 and 15 and they talked me into going with them, (they are somewhat experienced) and I am a dad that wants to do what the kids want to do, (they seem to want to spend more time with you if you do what they like to do instead of forcing my hobbies on them, pathetic reason to snowboard, I know, but whatever works), I am 49 year old and can wakeboard ok, but snowboarding was a lot harder. I took to the bunny hill a couple of times to figure out the on and off the lift thing, then went to the easiest of the only 2 runs open at Copper on Tgiving day. By the time I was half way down I had the falling leaf thing smokin, (heal side), learning to ride switch on wakeboard helped speed that up I think, by the last run of the day my quads were shelled and I let the front edge down at pretty good speed, face planted so hard I broke 2 ribs.
Next day I went slower (broken ribs will do that to you) and worked on toe side most of the time, but really had trouble with turns, wish I would have done this forum before I went, the general instructions on this board would have helped, wakeboarding you lean back against the pull of the rope and I am sure that is what I was doing on turns. I was just hoping that the next time I go I could learn to get down looking a little more graceful. My friends all say to sell my board and buy skis, but I like having my feet strapped to the board and would rather stick with it for a while. Now that I have told you where I am at with my training, how many more days before I can kind of get the linking thing.

I know one thing for sure, I will be wearing a helmet next time, I was surprised how many helmetted riders there were, I figured just the geeks would be wearing. On the second day I was doing my leaf thing and a crazy person on a board drilled me in the back with a glancing blow to my head, a couple of inches to the left and it could have been bad, and yes I probably did the leaf thing right in front of him, the hill was brutal busy, (only 2 runs open, 1 green, 1 blue).

Snowolf

Well, I would naturally encourage you to take a lesson; that helps get you your "sea legs" a lot faster.

Having said that, Check out the guides sticky`d to the top of this section (sounds like you may have already) The thing about turning that usually troubles people is the point that the board is pointed down the hill and accelerating. You mentioned the leaning back against the rope....this combined with natural "speed anxiety" may be getting you really in the "back seat". Next time you try this, really concentrate on keeping you center of mass between your bidings and over the effective edge of the board. Are you using the torsional flex method to initiate the turns as described in the guides above? if not, really try to work on that as it is a method that, if followed reduces edge catching.

To get comfortable with the concept of turning, make an intermediate step from falling leaf to linking turns. Do what is called "garlands" or "j turns"...what you will do is start out as a falling leaf, then allow the nose of the board to drift father down the hill (ideally straight down the hill) pick up a little bit of speed (push the envelope and get just to the point you are starting to get spooked) then gradually bring the board back across the fall line to slow down. Stay on the same edge the entire time. reapeat as many times as it take for you to become very comfortable with this. Also, do the same thing on your toe edge. Once you get this down on both edges, you will have developed muscle memory and completing a turn from this point will be a lot easier.

This is all broken down in the guides section so check that out for steps to complting a full turn. Remember that the thing about making an edge change is that the only thing the snowboard cares about is if it is traveling longitudinally from tip to tail without any side load. If that is true, there is no danger of an edge catch.

Try those Garlands.....

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dzoo

Thanks for the reply, I will try the garlands, sounds like a good way to get used to the process, do you think you could try to describe a couple of things to me using different terms, there is a couple of things that I don't understand. The first one is: Remember that the thing about making an edge change is that the only thing the snowboard cares about is if it is traveling longitudinally from tip to tail without any side load. If that is true, there is no danger of an edge catch.

2. Are you using the torsional flex method of turning?

Sorry to be ignorant but I really appreciate the help.

Snowolf

No worries....

On the torsional flex question:

Basically there are 3 ways to get a snowboard to turn and two are closely related).

1) pivot: the rider will rotate their upper body which puts rotational force upon the lower body. This force will cause the board to turn. (This is like turning an aircraft using only the rudder to skid the turn, not banking the wings with the ailerons)

2)Weight transfer: this is where the rider will shift their weight from one edge to the other cuasing the board to lean and engaging the sidecut in the snow. In other words, if you lean over the toe edge, the board will lean on that edge and begin to turn. Shifting your weight over the hell edge causes a heel side turn.

3) Torsional Flex. Simply this means twisting the board on its longitudinal axis. With both feet strapped into the binding, twist the board by pushing down on the toe with one foot while pulling up on the toe of the other foot. So when you are riding, to begin a toeside turn, you pressue the toe edge with the front foot so the sidecut begins to engage. Then, once the turn is fully established, follow through with the rear foot. (this is like using the ailerons on the wing of an aircraft to bank; it is essentialy "twisting" the wing)

Aso you ride, you will make a cooridinated turn by using torsional flex and pivot at the smae time. So for toeside, you rotate your upper body to place front shoulder over toe edge and rear shoulder over heel edge(call this your rudder) Using the front foot, pressure that toe edge to twist the board so that the sidecut engages and turns the board.

Okay on sideloading and moving tip to tail....

If you are riding your board in a straight line, the nose is leading the way and you making a straight line across the snow (the board is not sliding sidewyas down the hill). As long as this is the case, the edges are not sliding sideways and therefore cannot catch in the snow. As long as this is the case, you can safely change which edge your are riding on.

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dzoo

I got it now. I know the hardest part of all of that is "moving the front shoulder over the toe line and rear shoulder over the heel line. That sounds easy, but for some reason it is not a natural thing to do for me or somehow scares me and I am reluctant to do it. I know, just work on it, which I am very willing to do.

Thanks again. It is very kind of you to very talented people on this board to have the patients to help those of us that are struggling to get started.

Snowolf

All of us like to see new people getting the stoke over this fun sport. As an instructor, I genuinely have a passion for helping people learn to ride and learn to ride better.

Yeah, for me, when I was first learning, going from toeside to heel was the hardest. That turn always felt like a blind side turn to me and with your back to the downhill, it is counter intuitive to turn to and lean down hill. Once you start doing it and learn that you don`t instantly crash, you will have confidence and it wont bother you.

On really steep stuff like I get myself into near the summit of mt. Hood (50-60 degree pitches) I still get a little spooked, but it still works the same. If the snow is really firm and there is a risk of a fall becoming a long uncontrolle dtumbled down severl thousand feet, I will make a quick pivot turn from my toe edge to mo heel and back again. This is almost like doing a quick 180 so that I go from edge to edge with no time spent pointed down the fall line. This technique works well in the moguls when they are hard and frozen also.

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PaoloSmythe

i broke my ribs on my first trip to a hill! i suffered the dreaded 'last run-itus'! ie was thinking about a beer and taking the boots off prematurely! took an extra few hours before i realised that beer and boots off as i had to go via the hospital for x-rays.

chest full of gravel! damn those full pockets, stuffed with crap i didn't need anyways! oh the lessons to be learnt.

and so too for the wearing of a skid lid. people, yourself included can whizz down those hills. i guess it is tuffer in the US to appreciate the need as you can (at least until recently) ride bikes without a helmet yeah? messed up. kids over here don't even cycle without a skid lid on.

the cliche goes, if you think you don't need one, then you haven't got the brains to risk in the first place!

(this wasn't exactly a post to address your Q's i admit, but i'd be hard pushed to trump wolfie's wisdom.... but for what its worth..... besides i am boring my tits off here on a hungover friday arvo at work! blurgh!)

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Just coz you don't understand it
Doesn't mean it makes no sense!

PaoloSmythe

buh!?

they are mighty large numerals! can it be true?

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Just coz you don't understand it
Doesn't mean it makes no sense!

Snowolf

Tis true...up above the hogsback below the summit of Mt Hood the wall to the left runs about 53 degrees on average. I climb up above the Bergshrund Crevase and traverse north along this wall then drop down a wide chute that runs 45 to 50 degrees most of the way, then drops to 60 just bfore leveling out above Illumination rock.




The Hogsback itslef is about 50 degrees when you drop down the south side with volcanic vents at the bottom....

Hogsback

Crater Rock

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Snowolf

Thank God I ain`t got nuthin to worry bout then......

What will really horrify you is this..in Arizona we can ride motorcycles without being forced to wear a helmet. I am all for helmets, but as a consenting adult, I don`t want some government agency telling me I MUST wear the damn thing. Its the same with seat belts....I wear them, but it`s not the govy`s business to protect me from me.

So, for now I ride brainless....

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