Snowolf

So has Chris explained why he does not want you to teach any side slipping? I am curious as to the reason why. Up until apparently very recently, this was the progression AASI promoted and is in the handbook. My logic and I assumed it was the logic of AASI and certainly Mt. Hood Meadows (not to mention Arizona Snowbowl where I took my first lessons)is to teach edge angle control and stopping. Our first concern was teaching people how to stop and going into a side slip is the only way to make an emergency stop and remain in control. Right now, I tend to be in disagreement with this policy change but I also don`t know the reasons behind it.

As for your assessment of the video, please let me know what areas you thought the descriptions were a bit off or movements exaggerated. I mean this sincerely and not in a defensive way; it is good to get feedback on teaching style and see it from another instructor`s eyes. I am always trying to improve my teaching technique so any constructive criticism, advise and comments on things that were spot on are always helpful.

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daysailer1

More than likely he was just towing the WP party line. He was the trainer and we had to follow school protocols. I kinda balked at first because I thought it was a good edge control and safety technique too. I think I remember him mentioning that people fell too easily into it when challenged with new terrain and never learned to turn. If they aren't taught it, most likely they won't use it in the future. I had been using the "gas pedals" terminology for twist before then too. Chris said you could use it, but he didn't really like it. I switched to Chris' method. It's harder to teach but it does introduce the fundamentals of lower body steering much quicker. I remembered last night that I used to correct alot more for uppper body. I was told once by a super. "that's great but, hey, work on the lower body movements more". I still do upper body alignments - just a whole lot differently and more efficiently. I wanted more training than my old hill - I got it.

I'll have to look at the video again and note the timepoints for reference. It's painful for me to watch. I need some COFFEE too.

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Atomic Cold Smoke 157
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daysailer1

Snowolf,

I’m PM’ing you an email address.

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Atomic Cold Smoke 157
Burton Triads
Salomon Dialogues

Snowolf

Hey, it isn`t THAT bad....

Hahaha, I think I get what you mean...no snow and a long time untill snowboarding season? Sounds like someone needs a summer riding trip to Hood...

Your answer regarding the sideslip sounds on par with some of the evolution that AASI is undergoing. This is the reason they are getting away from promoting teaching linked traverses. People begin to use it too much and stop short of perfecting linking turns. Our attitude at Meadows is to give as much information as we can (a rider can never have too many tricks in their bag) but to do so "in passing" and focus on the real goal of good, fluid linked turns.

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boarderaholic

Daysailer, this sounds alot like the fall line edge change method that CASI introduced this season. It's very similar to traversing, but without the stopping. The point of this exercise is to teach using the heel/toe edge, but rotating the body uphill to switch edges. From what I understand, CASI introduced it to reduce the "sit down and roll onto the other edge" technique and to allow students to feel what it's like to start turning.

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Snowjoe

Sorry we aren't up to your AASI standards.

I remember this year when they introduced that fall line edge change, so many instructors were so confused about it all! I often preferred to use the stop anyway as its easier to explain to people, especially the kids.

daysailer1

No, it's not THAT bad.

I'm depressed. Sunday is the last day for A-Basin. I didn't get my weekend fix on Sunday cause my ankle still hurts from a week ago from doing too many jumps and dropping the cornice. My ankle still hurts and I want to celebrate the last day at the Basin w/o killing myself. There is other potential drama there too if I run into a person that is still annoyed with me (and you would recognize the name) I'm trying to make peace with the dude.

My brain is balking at doing video MA analysis.

In reality, we aren't really doing linked traverses either. We really build upon the basics before introducing linked turns which is the goal. If anything it's garlands, garlands, garlands in our school with all the proper upper body alignments at the non-dynamic riding level. The NZ guys stress garlands, garlands, garlands, too. Get the fundamentals strong and then introduce the turns. Once you put the pieces together the first time, boom from the start, solid linked turns with all those nice lower body movements. Can you tell I adore teaching Burton LTR classes?

Snowjoe, I think I didn't express correctly again. Your techniques actually get people turning sooner. Turning is the goal correct? I bring enormous history baggage with me. I've learned many techniques over the years and they wound up as a combined mess for me. I never learned to get rid of the upper body rotation for a very long time. From my history it's painful, not from AASI standards. I apologize.

At some point one has to learn proper upper body and lower body separation for moguls and such. I didn't even know of the concept until last season. One exercise that I was introduced to last season and worked on getting this season was pivot-slips. Interesting exercise. I was utterly horrible in January. I'm still working on a few pieces.

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Snowjoe

Basically we have our beginner progression which gets you up to the basic turn which is the first in that video with heaps of upper body movement! Obviously this is far from an ideal way to get down the mountain, it still hurts me to do them for more than a few turns, it sucks! From there every turn is very similar to that first turn. Generally the next turn up in the progression will use more edge angle, more lower body steering and less upper body rotation. As we all know lower body control is where its at, faster and more efficient etc. Eventually you get to the stage where the upper body isnt providing really any of the energy for the turn, just used to slightly guide you in.

When it gets demo'd in videos and in front of classes we tend to get the CASI robot out with the super straight arms, and super exaggerated upper body and flexion + extension in the legs.

I know what you mean about the mixed techniques! When I arrived in Canada I had been taight by the french! Front foot pivot and eurocarving at its best! Now theres nothing wrong with a good eurocarve for giggles but not all the time!

Sorry I got a big worked up, it must be the off season!

daysailer1

You know, CASI has a much better website than AASI. Ours is pretty pitiful compared to yours. Much of the AASI information is several years old and pretty boring. If you dig around you might find one short measly video clip telling people to take lessons from a professional. No fancy recruiting or training clips. I’m jealous. How did you guys get such a fancy informative website? Maybe I should drive over to the National office over in Lakewood today and complain.

Oh, my paychecks have Intrawest stamped all over them. I’m practically Canadian, EH? If I could afford a plane ticket right now I could go riding at Whistler for free this weekend for closing weekend.

So I looked at the video again and not so hyperfocused on the beginner turn section.

Some notes:

Really, the main difference I see between the two systems is at the start with the beginner turns. I think if I didn’t see that they are very similar.

Correct me if I’m wrong on these observations from that clip.

Level 1
1) Beginner turns – they are saying and I’m seeing turns initiated by upper body rotation. Lots of exaggerated turns with the leading shoulder. I see pivoting around the front foot but that may just be the rider in the video. It seems to come and go. There is a locked front ankle sometimes. (This part drives me bonkers and I want to run screaming from the room.)

2) Novice turns – This seems to be where the two systems merge. Not so much upper body rotation and the rider’s pivot point seems to be more centered.
There is the introduction of stance, balance, alignment, & pivot at this stage too. There is the introduction of knees/hips/shoulders –over the board and same direction and the riders are demonstrating this.
There is mention of flexion/extension for edge engagement and release & timing and coordination. The systems are similar here. I think there is instructor leeway here as to how to incorporate it and introduction.

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Snowjoe

Intrawest sure know how to make their resorts! I've visited the village they build in Les Arcs in france and it's amazing!

Technically CASI approach the novice turn as the same thing as a beginner turn but with the flexion and extension for speed control, because they have a little fetish for speed control! The lower body then comes in for intermediate turns.

In reality though I don't bother so much with the whole novice turn thing, the student knows from when we teach sideslipping that you slow down and speed up using this movement on the board so mostly I see people do it naturally, so I move away from this and start to focus on the lower body. I don't wanna leave people riding with their upper body for too long. Mostly I use it almost as an exercise to help them feel this movement to use in the intermediate turn.