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Old 12-12-2013, 05:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Pressuring The Nose To Start A Turn

So Iíve decided to write a quick post on this common tip used for beginner snowboarders. If anyone out there would like to share their perspective on this Iíd be more than happy for a quick convo as this one has puzzled me for a while now.

My view on this method is that I will never recommend it unless someone either has an extremely stiff board or lacks the muscular ability. The reason being that it moves ones balance away from the centre of their board and causes the board to fish tail. Although this may not be noticeable on your beginner greens, I find developing this habit can limit a riders performance on rougher and more diverse terrain and eventually becomes hard to change.

Now I realize that there is no right way to snowboard, there are only more efficient methods than others. I prefer to twist the board with my lead foot and knee to start a turn so that I can stay centred whilst smoothly getting the board to turn down the hill.

Any different perspectives on this, hit me up as Iím interested as to why itís used and am always willing to expand my views on different ways to board.
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Last edited by RiderWise; 12-12-2013 at 06:42 AM. Reason: More clarity in the title
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The reason being that it moves ones balance away from the centre of their board and causes the board to fish tail.
the above seems confusing....you want the weight on you nose to have the nose drop in to the fall line....AND...yes twist the board...also kind of depends on how tranverse or across the fall line a person when they start their turn. If ur doing shallow turns and the nose, say is within 45 degress or less of the fall line you can just barely twist the board and your weight will generally already be on the nose....and your board does not fish tail...it follows the nose unless a person is ruddering or gets in the back-seat and it gets squirrily. OTOH if a person is squarely tranverse or perpendicular to the fall line...just twisting the board seems kind of odd...but yes the board is twisted to release the uphill edge AND you weight the nose to get it to drop and once it is in the fall line you can twist it to initiate the turn....But perhaps its just two different ways of saying something with same result or a person need to do a bit of both to make it work...idk...not an instructor.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Staying centered all the time isn't really any better than staying forward all the time. The advantage of having them move their weight forward, in addition to the reasons wrath mentioned, is helps them learn to move their weight around on the board and plant the seed for coming forward at the start of the turn and moving back as the turn progresses. Typically students just need to focus on the moving the weight forward part and naturally drift back to center once they start turning.
For their first turns on very flat terrain, a little fishtail is fine and can be corrected with a soft extension of the back leg. This adventitious as well since using the back leg in conjunction with the front is a very useful skill for intermediate and uneven terrain.
Out of curiosity, how long have you been teaching/coaching? I checked out your site but all it said was you are "experienced".
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiderWise View Post
My view on this method is that I will never recommend it unless someone either has an extremely stiff board or lacks the muscular ability. The reason being that it moves ones balance away from the centre of their board and causes the board to fish tail. Although this may not be noticeable on your beginner greens, I find developing this habit can limit a riders performance on rougher and more diverse terrain and eventually becomes hard to change.


The problem with most beginners (that I've seen) is they're scared to lean forward on their board. The ride "in the back seat" and subsequently spend days falling.

Getting over the front of your board to initiate the turn is a great way to teach them weight control. Of course once you've initiated the turn, you'll then centre your weight on the board so the edge has the most bite, and finally you can back off to finish the turn.

Nevertheless, I find all this online turn diagnosing kind of odd. The best thing to do is get a lesson from a good instructor who can SHOW the noob how it's done instead of describing it to them.

Imagine getting sex lessons on the internet:
- Step one, put your weight on your wrists to allow for free pelvic motion
- Step two, fumble around missing the hole for about 5 minutes
- Step three, once you've found the hole, spend the next 45 seconds trying desperately not to be a quick finisher
- Step four, fail at step three

Somethings are just better DOING than TALKING about...
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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There are a couple of things to consider. First, the heavy end of the board always wants to go down the hill first. Second, a beginner is almost always going to have speed anxiety and lean too far back. Third, in order for torsional twist to be effective, the front half of the board needs to be weighted. Fourth, a beginner has got a lot of new information to process and try to use so keep it simple at first. Fifth, the terrain a beginner should be riding is not so steep that staying in a static, weight forward position, will pose any real problem.

I find that the most effective teaching technique is to have the student keep their front knee more bent than their back and to shift their torso toward the nose. Then use their front ankle to pressure the toe and heel edge of the board to initiate basic skidded turns.

Later on, when a rider starts getting into more intermediate riding tasks, dynamically shifting weight becomes essential and by that time, the student has enough experience to understand more complex riding tasks. On steep, black diamond terrain is is critical to start the turn with an aggressive forward shift of their weight and as they complete their turn, shift that weight toward the tail. This forward aft movement is so key to maintaining good control and edge hold on steep terrain.

Part of the reason the intermediate rider often reaches a plateau in their riding and seems to always struggle in very steep terrain is that they have had the idea of getting forward to initiate turns so ingrained into their minds, that they forget that there is absolutely a time to move aft. Along with correct timing of flexion and extension, good forward-aft movements are key to dynamic riding.

Also, remember the 4 board performance concepts of Twist, Tilt, Pivot and Pressure. To be an effective, efficient rider, we have to use and manage all four with good timing, intensity and duration.....
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Also, remember the 4 board performance concepts of Twist, Tilt, Pivot and Pressure. To be an effective, efficient rider, we have to use and manage all four with good timing, intensity and duration.....
Speaking of which, I recently spent 3 days of training to be a patroller, and my boarding was graded. You wouldn't believe how much time they spend on the BASICS. I mean heel sliding, falling leaf (it's a toboggan control method), short radius turns (inside a cat track), medium radius turns (about double that).

At the end of it all they sit you down and let you know how you did on all of the above. Edge and pressure control, weight control, pivot, stance, etc. etc.

There were guys that had been boarding 25 years that got shit on! We can all work on the basics from time to time.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I would be curious to have someone critique my riding... LOL!

I must do this weighting etc unconsciously? Perhaps not?


I have been sliding down the hill on one of these things since 1992. I sure hope I haven't been doing it wrong all these years??

Is it reasonable to think that these movements are second nature to an old motocross racer?
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I tell beginners to pressure the nose, but advanced riders to stay centered. To a beginner, when they think they are putting 70% of their weight on the front foot, it is usually much less. Even with advanced rider, I often ask the question "what do you think your weight distribution was during that turn?" Many say 50/50 and often that is not the case.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's pretty easy to tell by the amount of burn on each leg... If both of my legs are shot I am pretty happy with the day (minus the powder factor)
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiderWise View Post
Now I realize that there is no right way to snowboard, there are only more efficient methods than others. I prefer to twist the board with my lead foot and knee to start a turn so that I can stay centred whilst smoothly getting the board to turn down the hill.

Any different perspectives on this, hit me up as Iím interested as to why itís used and am always willing to expand my views on different ways to board.
Yes there is a right and wrong way to snowboard. I see it everyday at the hill with all level of riders

So many good points have already been brought up not much else to add
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