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Air Spins

9K views 49 replies 15 participants last post by  Jed 
#1 ·


I am really good at flips/spins on the trampoline and I can do ground spins really easily but when I get in the air on a snowboard I feel like i just freeze and its hard for me to pop while im turning into a spin. Besides my bad landing what can I do to spin fast. If im like going on flat ground i can pop in the air and do a 180 like extremely easy but when I go off a tiny jump I get like confused in the air I guess.
 
#2 ·
It looks like your spinning with your legs instead of your core (the midsection of your body). This is easy to do on small spins like a 180 but as you get in to higher rotations a lot of the force will need to come from your core. If you load your core and release as you come off the jump your body will spin and the board will follow and your rotation will be much faster.
 
#6 ·
Your mechanics are the same as if you are doing it on carpet or a tramp. Notice how your legs led your torso. For all spins you need to learn how to throw the spin with your shoulders and arms. The only reason dudes carve into a jump is to better anchor their edge while they start the spin with their upper body. Your feet will follow your head and shoulders, just remember that.
 
#8 ·
On top of previous advice. You are barely getting any air. The more air you get the less effort you will need to complete your rotation in time before you land.

If you try doing a 360 off that same hit you will need to add more core wind up and rotation and more pop. Also you are standing a little tall. Add a little more compression to your stance for more pop and better feel.
 
#9 ·
Your almost at 90 degrees of rotation before you clear the the lip of the kicker. For a 180 it's unnecessary. Like others have said focus more on popping off that lip and leading with your shoulders/head. The more air you get, the less need you'll feel to rush the rotation.

Also, before you move to a 360, get that 180 hammered down. No need to run before you can walk. If you focus on 3's you'll have more issues going back to 180's and even bigger problems with 5's.
 
#10 ·
Great advice above so just follow that.
One thing I noticed in your video that may help you break through, is your actually counter rotating your upper body against the direction of the spin! If you pause the frames just on your take off, you have started rotating the board backside but you shoulders are pushing back straight down the fall line (like the way you rode in) and if you pause in mid air you can see your body has carried on fighting against the actual spin direction, from the peak air position you can see your shoulders and arms are trying to keep your body riding down regular while just your lower body has tried to do a backside 3.
To do a 360 your upper body definitely needs to be in on the game.
 
#11 ·
I've never practiced on a trampoline, but one possible difference is that the trampoline may give you some traction to push against to create your spin and snow does not. On a snowboard, a slight carve can give you that bit of traction you need to start the spin with your legs. To prevent your spin from continuing after the landing, try to look back where you came from (blind landing), and ride looking uphill for a few feet. Really nice if you want to hit the next feature switch.
 
#12 · (Edited)
There's some bad info in this thread, so before I get to the spin stuff, I'm going to clear some things up.

1) It's not about getting more air to spin more

Spin is not about getting more air, it's about getting more power into your rotation.

Yes as you move to bigger rotations, you'll need more air, but that doesn't happen until you start doing much bigger tricks. For 180s, 360s and even 540s, you barely need any airtime. The whole 'get more air to spin more' is bad advice and it means you're setting up your spin the wrong way.

2) Don't pop harder to spin more

The purpose of pop is not to get more air and spin more, it's to set you up for a stable air. To spin more you add power to your carve, not power to your pop.

You want a firm, good pop, but you absolutely do not need to pop harder to spin bigger spins.

Okay now that I've covered that, on to the spinning.

1) To fix that 180

I'm not sure if you wanted advice to fix the 180 as well, but just in case you did, you were mainly messing up that 180 because you didn't end it in a blind landing.

You can see at the end of that rotation that your head continues to look forward at the end of the rotation. That's why you're over-rotating into a 270 instead of ending at 180. With backside 180s you have to end the spin by looking back at the knuckle, otherwise you'll over-rotate like you did in the video.

2) To take this to 360s


It's all about your carve line. Right now you're not carving into the jump, you're coming in on an edge while mostly riding straight, which is fine for 180s since they require barely any rotation.

However, for 360s and beyond you want to start using proper carving. This means entering the jump at an angle and carving up the take-off to create spin power. The more spin you need, the harder you set up and release that carve.

I've attached a rough diagram of what your carve line should look like coming into the jump.

If you want more in-depth info on the carve line, I have an old blog I did on the subject awhile back here: The Secret To An Effortless 360 Rotation - The Perfect Carve Line

One last thing, besides the carve line as already mentioned, you want to quiet down that upper body and start relying more on having your upper body lead that rotation, while getting power for the carve to power the spin (instead of throwing your hands around).

Think of it like this:

Body rotation = starts and leads the spin and tells your body where to spin
Carve = creates power to spin
Pop = releases your spin power and sets you up for stable air

If done right, your upper body will lead the spin, the carve and pop will create power and release it into the spin, and your lower body will follow your upper body around into the spin.

ps - in the image below, the swap edge point simply means it's where you go from your setup carve to your final carve. So for example, if you were doing a backside 360, that swap edge point is where you're going from heelside to engaging your toeside edge and carving up the jump.
 

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#13 ·
There's some bad info in this thread, so before I get to the spin stuff, I'm going to clear some things up.

1) It's not about getting more air to spin more

Spin is not about getting more air, it's about getting more power into your rotation.

Yes as you move to bigger rotations, you'll need more air, but that doesn't happen until you start doing much bigger tricks. For 180s, 360s and even 540s, you barely need any airtime. The whole 'get more air to spin more' is bad advice and it means you're setting up your spin the wrong way.

This.

I can't believe people are telling OP to get more air, when he is having issue spinning a 3 on a smaller jump. Sending it off a bigger jump is just going to get him hurt.
 
#14 ·
Jed FTW.

For what its worth...this may or may not be helpful...

When I was learning to 360 I was always told to spin BS first. So for almost a whole season I would try to spin BS, with the impression that this was the easier side to spin. BUT I just couldn't get 360s clean. I was either not rotating enough, landing tail heavy or they just looked sloppy. So one day I tried spinning FS instead and landed it perfectly, first time. I just feel way more comfortable spinning FS over BS. Once I locked in my FS 3's, I took the same mechanics I had with those and translated it to BS and was able to even those out.

Just an idea. Something to think about.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Yea. A little more air wouldn't help at all. And considering its a bump not a jump no need for more pop. Now that I think about it, you shouldn't get any air. Go as small as possible, carve half the lip, hover an inch above the snow and yank your body. Getting another couple inches of air and a little more hang time could kill you so stay away. Effortless style is for fools.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Yea. A little more air wouldn't help at all. And considering its a bump not a jump no need for more pop. Now that I think about it, you shouldn't get any air. Go as small as possible, carve half the lip, hover an inch above the snow and yank your body. Getting another couple inches of air and a little more hang time could kill you so stay away. Effortly style is for fools.
I honestly can't tell if mystery is making a joke or if he's being passive aggressive because we said his advice was wrong.

Just fyi, I'm not saying getting more air is 100% wrong, just that if anyone is relying on more air for 360s, then it's a flaw in their technique that needs to be fixed and more air will just mask bad technique without solving the real problem. You don't see any good snowboarders struggling to pull 360s on flat ground because their technique is solid and that's why spins are effortless for them.
 
#18 ·
I'm use to you saying I'm wrong. I'm also use to you thinking your the only one who knows anything and everyone else is beneath you. Sounds like a personality issue really. Considering its a Internet forum and not a in person hands on experience training to be an Olympian, I don't see why your so serious all the time. Oh yea, personality issue. I don't and I'm sure others don't agree with every magical piece of advice you type but we don't follow you around picking apart every little disagreement we find. You give sold advice 90% of the time but you also consider your advice the one and only way to fix or accomplish something.

OP, I still stand by my first post. You inquired and we told you what we see. For me, finding a jump or hip that gave me decent amount of air help me lock in my spins without rushing them or putting a ton of upper body in it or a hard carve. The hang time gave me time to think and allowed me to break down each part of the spin (set up, body posture, landing). This same concept applied to my wakeboarding and bmx freestyle. More time in the air allows me to do tricks without rushing them. Keep in mind I'm not saying go huge. Just something that gives you a little more lift without trying so hard.

Your turn master Jed. Tell everyone how terribly wrong I am and how this will creat bad habits that will ruin your snowboarding experience. All hail the almighty Jed. :bowdown:
 
#33 ·
I don't want to hi-jack here... no I understand you're fixing his current attempt, in which case, yes just more speed. I just want him to understand the notion of how pop correlates to a jump as compared to simply letting momentum and gravity do the work. There's definitely a technique to hitting a jump properly while using the pop in your board and legs. Sorry for the confusion regarding ollies and pop... Less ollie, more jumping.
 
#39 ·
I am not expert but there is a rotation difference between guy 1 and 2. 1 has more speed in his rotation.

Here's a guy with plenty of rotation. In the beginning of the video he does almost a 720 flat !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6luuqA7CEY

I can see that his upper body is turned 90 degrees at the moment he starts his pop and he continues to rotate his head/upper body until he is finished.

But how should one think/train to get more rotation speed. I have no problems with 180, but struggling on 360 and more.
 
#40 ·
Rotation comes down to timing and how well you utilize the power from your carve. Notice that really hard loud sound just before that guy launches into his 720? That's his carve. He has his timing so down that he goes from flat base, to hard carve, to launching into his spin all in that short span of under 1 second and he's able to utilize all that power due to good timing.

If you want the one reason why most people struggle with 360s and beyond it's because they aren't carving properly. Sometimes it's their timing being badly off, but a lot of it is their bad carve line as well.

I guarantee if you watch 20 beginners in the park trying to spin and watch their carve lines they'll be doing this:

- Drop in, do their setup turn, get ready to carve, get on their toe or heel edge, ride up the jump in a straight line on that edge, launch into their spin.

Every single beginner thinks they're carving but really 99% of them are just riding up the jump on an edge, then trying to launch their spin. If they were carving their board would be turning left or right as they ride up the jump instead of riding in a straight line.

In reality they should be doing this:

- Drop in, do their setup turn, get ready to carve, come into the jump at an angle, carve up the jump, launch into their spin.

You can see a diagram of this carve up here: http://www.snowboardingforum.com/tips-tricks-snowboard-coaching/121897-air-spins-2.html#post1462145

There's a big difference between carving and riding on an edge up the jump and that's where most people go wrong with powering their spin.

The reason you don't see advanced riders utilize that carve line as much on 180s and 360s is their timing is so good that they don't need the power, but if you watch them do bigger spins on medium jumps where they want more power, you'll notice they all carve up the jump at an angle to get that extra power.
 
#44 ·
3rd guy-Reason I'm just mentioning him is because it relates a little to the issue you had on the first video you posted of yourself (but your friend is doing it a lot more so you can more readily see it). Notice how he takes off on the right side of the kicker (far from camera) but lands on the flat on the left side of the jump (close to the camera) he has turned to early off the jump leaving it on an angle, which firstly scrubs speed and of course flying diagonally across the flat, makes hitting the landing zone much longer than heading straight off (and you said you would never need to use your trigonometry when you left school).

Note this situation is not caused by incorrect technique on the lip as you may think, he is predisposed to this outcome, with his setup turns. Look at your setup turn in contrast, coming out pretty wide on you final toeside setup turn, before shifting to your heel edge looks pretty good (I still think you could hold off transition to your heel edge a little longer). But contrast this to your mate, his toeside setup "turn" is more like he is heading straight at it for a straight air, from this position, when he moves to his heels, he will start carving to the left, as you can see has actually happened with his launch, well to the left.

Your jumps look to have improved, well done, your not far off having a good smooth 360. Keep practising man.
 
#46 ·
Yeah its a mental thing, step ups you can see the landing in front of you and with the kick you land slower than the takeoff. It take a bit mentally to chuck your body into a spin off a ramp where all you can see is a ramp and the sky beyond. You're definitely getting it though, hang in there. Not to take anything away from other advise on here, but you can't go wrong with the snowboard addiction vid on spins, its hands down the best spin tutorial available, one stop shop.
But you're doing the right thing, analyzing your own videos, what you think your doing is not always what you're actually doing.
 
#47 ·
I'm coming back seeking more tips! :yahoo:

So I've been trying to practice a bit more with my spins (unfortunately we're getting no snow in Vancouver and I usually only have time at night when the jumps are icy).

I think I got used to getting more speed and popping quite comfortably up. I've had a few almost successful 540 attempts where I felt very stable and very controlled in the air. But for most of the attempts, I will only get about 450 degrees around. After the 450 I clearly see the landing and see that my board has become horizontal (just need that extra 90 degrees to finish). But at this point my rotation seems to stop and I will land horizontally, then sit down on my butt (which kind of hurts when I'm dropping down from the air).

Is my problem "opening up too early" or something similar that's causing me to only do 450? Every time I felt like I'm in the perfectly relaxed athletic stance in the air (with knees bent, body stable, looking straight at the landing) but I could not get that last 90 degrees around. Or should I just carve up and rotate slightly more aggressively to get that full rotation?
 
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