Heelside Turns on Steeps - Page 2 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 09:01 AM
Veteran Member
 
speedjason's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
I find if I stack a lot of weight especially like sitting into the corner I would wash out easily if the snow is icy.
try add some forward lean on the high back to get the edge up more and more weight over the board?
speedjason is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
trapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West of Lansing
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksup3erb View Post
I'd be curious to learn what you were trying to fix toe side and what the instructor had you do.
Well I just wasn't comfortable making toeside turns, especially in steep terrain. He rode behind me for exactly 4 turns then broke down my life story in complete, accurate detail. lol

Seriously though he just showed me how to really push your front knee more outward towards the tip of the board to really get a feel for what weight forward means and how to really flex the board torsionally with my front foot. You can read it all day long and still not get it, but when he showed me in person and critiqued me while I did it, it made a huge difference.

He had me do an entire run of garlands, mostly on my toeside and I could feel where I had been relying too much on my back foot before. That old habit still creeps up on my now and again, but I'm conscious of it now.

2015/16 Snow Days
  • Bittersweet: 2
  • Caberfae: 7
  • Crystal: 6
  • Boyne Mtn: 1
  • Boyne Highlands: 1
  • Nub's Nob: 1
  • Keystone: 1
  • Winter Park: 2
trapper is offline  
post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 09:07 AM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
ksup3erb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper View Post
Well I just wasn't comfortable making toeside turns, especially in steep terrain. He rode behind me for exactly 4 turns then broke down my life story in complete, accurate detail. lol

Seriously though he just showed me how to really push your front knee more outward towards the tip of the board to really get a feel for what weight forward means and how to really flex the board torsionally with my front foot. You can read it all day long and still not get it, but when he showed me in person and critiqued me while I did it, it made a huge difference.

He had me do an entire run of garlands, mostly on my toeside and I could feel where I had been relying too much on my back foot before. That old habit still creeps up on my now and again, but I'm conscious of it now.
Cool.

Your washing out problem on heelside on steeper runs is similar to my problem on toe side steeps now. I'm having a helluva time stacking over the toeside edge even though I think I know what I should be doing. It's frustrating.
ksup3erb is offline  
post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
trapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West of Lansing
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksup3erb View Post
Your washing out problem on heelside on steeper runs is similar to my problem on toe side steeps now. I'm having a helluva time stacking over the toeside edge even though I think I know what I should be doing. It's frustrating.
I'm also wondering if part of the problem is that I feel more fluid on my toeside edge now and not as rigid, helping me to absorb the energy transfer and any bumps, etc more easily. Now that I'm thinking about this more, even though my knees are bent and I'm trying to stay loose on my heelside edge, I think that I am holding them more rigidly.

2015/16 Snow Days
  • Bittersweet: 2
  • Caberfae: 7
  • Crystal: 6
  • Boyne Mtn: 1
  • Boyne Highlands: 1
  • Nub's Nob: 1
  • Keystone: 1
  • Winter Park: 2
trapper is offline  
post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
trapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West of Lansing
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Everyone, thanks for you help and suggestions. I have enough things to try next time out to see if that helps. If not, then I'm going to bite the bullet and do another lesson.

2015/16 Snow Days
  • Bittersweet: 2
  • Caberfae: 7
  • Crystal: 6
  • Boyne Mtn: 1
  • Boyne Highlands: 1
  • Nub's Nob: 1
  • Keystone: 1
  • Winter Park: 2
trapper is offline  
post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 09:58 AM
Veteran Member
 
CassMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Whitefish MT
Posts: 2,298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
this is one of the trickier situations in riding. if the hill is steep and icy and maybe moguly there is an extremely fine line where you are gonna get it right and make a nice clean carve, made finer if your weight: effective edge:speed ratio is less than ideal. maybe when you go from toe to heel, in that moment when you are pointed strait falline you are getting back on it, throwing it around too fast, digging in too hard cuz your weight is uphill and you chatter out (?)

sometimes the conditions and your skill are such that you just have to slow it down a bit and find that edge, and then work your way up. sometimes truly icy conditions are gonna make it so that ratio i mention above make it 'impossible' to make a clean carve on ice and you just have to stay on your board and forget about a pretty line in the snow. personally i will do always choose an uglyass turn to ending up on my ass.
CassMT is offline  
post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 09:59 AM
Resident Snowman
 
aiidoneus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The common problem I see with people's heelside turns when carving is bending at the waist. This causes the center of mass to shift towards the middle of the board instead of the heelside edge where you want it. As you come across the hill this causes the board to slip and break free. Which is kind of what I think is happening to you.

Unlike a toeside carve where you can really roll your hips and knees forward and keep the weight centred over the edge. Heelside you have to lean back into the hill as you compress at the start of your turn to really get a solid edge early.

The common drill to work on this is called Super Man(Toeside) / Frankenstein (Heelside). As you are on your toeside, you roll the hips forward and let your arms go behind you like you are flying as superman. Then as you switch to heelside you put your hands out in front of you like Frankenstein and lean back into the hill.
aiidoneus is offline  
post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 10:09 AM
Veteran Member
 
wrathfuldeity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bham
Posts: 5,207
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
I think on heelside, the tendency is to sit too low and for too long....thus resulting in not being able to get out of the backseat fast enough and the board ends up being too transverse. Its natural to do this...partly due to fear of speed, fear of ice...hearing the chatter...but by that time its too late and we wash out on our ass.

So I've try to remedy this by being more anticipatory....by seeing and anticipating the ice and trying to keep my leading shoulder pointed down the fall line, the nose within 45 degrees of the fall line,...while sucking up the rear foot/tail...that is...trying to stay more in the front seat....and lighten up my feet....kind of floating over the ice and aiming for a patch in which to get an edge in or use terrain in which to bank a turn off to help the lack of edge.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
wrathfuldeity is offline  
post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 10:16 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aiidoneus View Post
The common problem I see with people's heelside turns when carving is bending at the waist. This causes the center of mass to shift towards the middle of the board instead of the heelside edge where you want it. As you come across the hill this causes the board to slip and break free. Which is kind of what I think is happening to you.

Unlike a toeside carve where you can really roll your hips and knees forward and keep the weight centred over the edge. Heelside you have to lean back into the hill as you compress at the start of your turn to really get a solid edge early.

The common drill to work on this is called Super Man(Toeside) / Frankenstein (Heelside). As you are on your toeside, you roll the hips forward and let your arms go behind you like you are flying as superman. Then as you switch to heelside you put your hands out in front of you like Frankenstein and lean back into the hill.
This^

To reduce the chatter, also try thinking about bringing your center of mass closer to your heel edge by getting lower, but do not bend at the waist. Keep your back straight
Bparmz is offline  
post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 10:38 AM
Veteran Member
 
KIRKRIDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,863
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper View Post
So I'm at the point where I'd say I'm a solid intermediate rider (freeride not freestyle). I took a few laps with an instructor back in early December and it really helped a lot with understanding the use of the front foot in turn initiation. Previously I had been using my back foot a bit too much for turns. I'm at a point where I can cruise pretty fast on groomers of moderate steepness and am even laying down some actual carves (not the super deep ones with hand drags or anything) when I try.

So what's weird is that on a blue and I try to actually carve and pick up speed, heelside feels natural and smooth. Toeside turns had been an issue early this year but after implementing the instructor's advice these have actually become smooth too. In reality, I am now finding toeside turns and carves to come more naturally on steeper terrain than heelside.

Which brings me to the problem. When I ride a black diamond, I am pretty comfortable making my turns except when I hit an icy patch or the steepest spot (oftentimes both things at the same time) going into a heelside turn. What happens is I'm not absorbing the speed and my boards chatters violently and will sometimes put me directly on my ass.

I've tried bending my knees more but that doesn't seem to help. I'm wondering if it has something to do with proper fore and aft movements going into, riding through and coming out of the heelside turn. Obviously I'm going to seek the advice of an instructor if I can't solve this on my own, but I was just wondering what advice any of you more experienced guys/gals can provide.

Thanks for any feedback.

TLDR: Heelside board chatter on steeps, how to shift bodyweight properly to avoid it. Toeside is not a problem, nice and smooth.

High binding angles, (18 deg. and up) and both positive, will give you more or less the same kind of motion / rotation toe side and heel side. Once you perfect your tech you can go back to more open angles. But I find that the right binding angles are the most helpful factor when carving. Makes sense?

2015/16 -17- Kirkwood days
Arbor A-Frame 158 2009-10
Jeremy Jones Hovercraft 156, 2011/12
Burton Driver-X
K2-Cinch-CTX
Subaru WRX 06 - 181K
KIRKRIDER is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome