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Old 02-15-2014, 04:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Backside spin help

Level 2 aasi instructor here. I should probably get a video to show you guys my problem, but hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.


Anytime I spin backside off of a larger kicker and attempt 5's or 7's, I always spin too early. On the takeoff I approach with the hourglass type carve as usual, and right at the end of the takeoff I pop up, throw the shoulders, and tuck my head over. I can get the rotations just fine, but I end up spinning 90 off the takeoff. Because of this, I shave off some speed and end up spinning misty and landing WAY in the backseat to the point where I have to grab the ground so I don't fall.


I guess the problem is, on blind takeoffs, how do I stop spinning too early? Obviously I have to throw pretty hard for these spins. I lose pop and spin too early, which puts me in an awkward position in the air. Anyone else ever had this happen? I'm riding a bataleon right now, never had this problem with any other boards, but I've never thrown hard backside off big kickers with my libtech and gnu. Is there anything wrong with spinning slightly before takeoff? I see a lot of people do it, but someone keeps mentioning it to me which makes me think mine is severely worse.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That's a common problem with backside because so many people teach you to cheat the spin and start turning your shoulders and looking back at the takeoff before you pop. I struggle with it like crazy. But a friend I ride with who absolutely slays it, never does that. Instead he counterwinds and stays looking straight forward until he is popping off the lip and then he spins more as a unit as versus letting the upper body go first and the legs following. Maybe go back to practicing 3s that way, with no cheating the spin or the head until you pop.

Take a look at Snowboard Addiction too Nev's videos can sometimes identify something you are doing wrong with your setup carve, windup and takeoff.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tonicusa View Post
That's a common problem with backside because so many people teach you to cheat the spin and start turning your shoulders and looking back at the takeoff before you pop. I struggle with it like crazy. But a friend I ride with who absolutely slays it, never does that. Instead he counterwinds and stays looking straight forward until he is popping off the lip and then he spins more as a unit as versus letting the upper body go first and the legs following. Maybe go back to practicing 3s that way, with no cheating the spin or the head until you pop.

Take a look at Snowboard Addiction too Nev's videos can sometimes identify something you are doing wrong with your setup carve, windup and takeoff.
I release windup too early. So just keep looking at the end of the takeoff and once the front of my board touches pop and release?
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If you are releasing your windup too early you might have gotten comfortable on smaller spins "winding up too early" and it's only showing up now. See how crisp and snappy your 3s get if you wait longer to windup, like literally just past the start of the transition. If you are getting 90 on your setup carve, you are probably also starting that too early and making it too big which can easily be masked in 3s etc. and is probably just showing up now.

Check out Nev Lapwood here in his "Advanced Spinnning" vid:

Advanced Spinning Part 2 (Regular) on Vimeo


You might think you are leaving the lip straight but obviously your friends are telling you that you're not. It's like everything we always think our legs are bent more than they are or that we are flattening the board in the pipe more than we are etc.

Last edited by tonicusa; 02-15-2014 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Excellent points made. Also one thing to remember with your Bataleon board is how the TBT delays edge engagement. While on a normal board simply putting a little pressure on an edge will get it engaged and kind of set you up for your spin, on Bataleons TBT with the edge roll you have to go much further to get the edge to grab snow and by that time you are putting much more effort in to the edge than an edge that is level with the base of your board. Not sure if that makes sense but basically look at it this way: If a normal board you can push at say a two degree angle to get the edge to engage and ready you for a spin, a bateleon board with rolled edges you will have to put maybe up to a 30 degree angle before the edge hits and thus it will make you look like you are engaging your edge or preturning much earlier to make up for the delay in board contact. Same thing with how you should have noticed a slight delay in turn initiation with the Bataleon.

TBT is catch free but it is not without it's flaws.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Excellent points made. Also one thing to remember with your Bataleon board is how the TBT delays edge engagement. While on a normal board simply putting a little pressure on an edge will get it engaged and kind of set you up for your spin, on Bataleons TBT with the edge roll you have to go much further to get the edge to grab snow and by that time you are putting much more effort in to the edge than an edge that is level with the base of your board. Not sure if that makes sense but basically look at it this way: If a normal board you can push at say a two degree angle to get the edge to engage and ready you for a spin, a bateleon board with rolled edges you will have to put maybe up to a 30 degree angle before the edge hits and thus it will make you look like you are engaging your edge or preturning much earlier to make up for the delay in board contact. Same thing with how you should have noticed a slight delay in turn initiation with the Bataleon.

TBT is catch free but it is not without it's flaws.

That is true. I'll run with another board tomorrow to see how it goes. Will likely end up killing myself with it as it has not been detuned once...
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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in all honesty, is this a real problem? As long as I focus on popping off and get a bit more speed to compensate, who cares, right? With this extra windup I feel like I can get around to throw 9's if I can spot the landing in time.
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonicusa View Post
That's a common problem with backside because so many people teach you to cheat the spin and start turning your shoulders and looking back at the takeoff before you pop. I struggle with it like crazy.
The trick to that 'cheat' method is you don't look back until after you pop, otherwise you can't time it properly. Your upper body rotates, but your head only rotates a little as it looks down at the lip and you time your carve and release properly. Only once you've popped off the lip does your head look backside into the spin.

I'd actually wager your friend uses the same 'cheat method' but he's just become experienced and good enough that he doesn't need to lead his spin as much. At the end of the day as long as your upper body is leading the spin, it doesn't really matter much if it's by a 5 degrees or 90 degrees ahead of the lower body.

Basically the upper body is just there to tell the power where to go, so that separation becomes less important as long as you are leading with it by that tiny split second.

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Originally Posted by I need a name View Post
in all honesty, is this a real problem? As long as I focus on popping off and get a bit more speed to compensate, who cares, right? With this extra windup I feel like I can get around to throw 9's if I can spot the landing in time.
Honestly you can just use more speed to compensate, it's kind of ugly to watch, but I do know a couple guys who do this at first with new spins when they want to squeeze that extra rotation out.

As far as fixing the original issue though, it seems to me like you have two solutions.

1) Carve harder and come in with more angle on your final carve to get your extra power from your carve while using the same release you use for 360s (I assume your 3s release at the right time)

2) Start your release a little later

It seems like you already said you know you release too early, so why don't you just start your release later? The whole 'start releasing as you start to ride up the ramp' timing is just a guide, if you find yourself using that timing, but releasing too early still, then just push your release point a little later by starting everything that tiny bit later.
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Last edited by Jed; 02-17-2014 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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On the transition between toe and heel on the hourglass, open your shoulders more. When you come into that last swoop on your toes, use it to kind of ignite your open shoulders. You should have a real consistent and slight turn of the shoulders. Just enough so that by the time you got to pop, you can "pull the string" and whip harder and quicker. It's just a good way to simplify the mechanics and reduce the amount of energy and time to generate that spin. Make sure you have that toe edge set real deep though. You want to use that back foot toe generate your spin. Sounds like yours might be washing out too early?
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