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Old 12-04-2009, 02:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Struggling with toeside turns

At the end of last season, I was able to get some invaluable advice here (thank you Snowolf and other veterans). Still having some issues and would appreciate some tips.

Still having an issue initiating my toeside turns. Facing down the mountain for my toeside turns, itís really hard for me to lean forward like I know I should and get on those toes. Times I have trusted myself it has been fluid, but other times when Iím sketch, I am still kicking it out and forcing the turn.

Also is there a tip anyone can give me for the steeper runsÖon the steeper runs I sketch out and start leaning back because I feel like Iím going too fast, then I end up skidding to slow down and I have to start all over again. I donít want to be the asshole that sideslips the steep runs.

Also wondering about my stance. I ride a Rome Blue 151, duck and centered, and my width is 20 inches. So far this has been extremely comfortable for me, but wonder if I changed my front foot angle if this would make any significant difference?

How can I parlay these turns into carves?

If you haven't already fallen asleep, here's a link to me over thanksgiving weekend. Healing run on Vimeo
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just with a quick view of that video, I'd wager people are going to recommend you ride with a more athletic stance.

The first toe side turn you do in that video, your legs are completely straight and this will certainly prevent you from keeping your balance while riding.

You would need to bend your knees more and be "at the ready position" (many sports have this position when you're waiting/anticipating a sudden movement. No need to bend at the waist, just bend at the ankles and knees and keep your upper body relaxed.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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another trick is to take your front shoulder, raise that arm parallel to the snow, and point it straight downhill. every time you want to turn, point that hand in the direction you want to turn. this will teach you to open and close your hips and shoulders more smoothly.

your hips are your center of gravity so all full body movements start there, and it applies to boarding as well. your legs are just the conduit between your hips and the board.

watch somebody good ride and you'll notice that on both toe and heelside turns their hips are in the exact same position and height from the snow. the lean of the turns just depends on the speed of the rider and thhe degree of the turn.

as far as the steeps go, the best way i caan describe it is to think of it like driving a manual vehicle. you can "feel" when its time to shift because of the tension in the engine. its the same with steeps turns. you can "feel" when the force of the turn allows the greatest transfer of energy to the ensuing turn.

that is a bit of an advanced technique though. i suggest mastering your turns before trying steep turns.

i hope this helps
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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bend those knees and steer with your shoulders, easy peezy butter steezy
also be confident: if you think you're going to fall, you're going to fall it's that simple. just think "I am about to put this mountain in it's place which is under my feet"
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool_As_Cakes View Post
another trick is to take your front shoulder, raise that arm parallel to the snow, and point it straight downhill. every time you want to turn, point that hand in the direction you want to turn. this will teach you to open and close your hips and shoulders more smoothly.
I think this might have been like an older way of teaching how to link turns, but its been discouraged because pointing isnt really that responsive. It might eventually make you start to turn, but it will have to go from your shoulder, down your body, to your hips, then to your legs which takes a while and is not really how you should snowboard. Heres a good vid to watch, pretty cheesy though

Link snowboard turns -- SnowProfessor.com

The biggest problem i see with your linking turns is that you are "ruddering" your back foot, essentially steering with it, when you are supposed to steer with your front foot. This is why a lot of snow gets kicked up every time you turn toeside, which can make you easily catch an edge and fall. When your going straight and want to turn toeside, just put pressure on the toe edge of the front foot, and as you start turning (and you will if you are doing it right) then commit with the whole body.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The Rome Blue is a pretty stiff freeride board and might not be the best deck for timid riders still learning to turn confidently. I was having the same problem so I ditched my Arbor Eden for the softer Ride Rapture. My riding was instantly better. I bought the Ride on sale, knowing I would probably outgrow it within a season, so now it's my rock board.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think this might have been like an older way of teaching how to link turns, but its been discouraged because pointing isnt really that responsive. It might eventually make you start to turn, but it will have to go from your shoulder, down your body, to your hips, then to your legs which takes a while and is not really how you should snowboard.
actually, i believe its the new way. aspen snowmass teaches this and they only started within the past few years. they are trying to eliminate the "floating leaf" which leads to very bad habits that are very hard to break. I've taught people the shoulder turn and had them linking turns by the end of the first day.

to the point though, we still don't turn with our feet, we turn with our hips and the shoulder turn method teaches that. the feet and legs only connect us to the board.

chop off your legs and as long as your strapped in somehow, you can still ride effectively.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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chop off your legs and as long as your strapped in somehow, you can still ride effectively.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cool_As_Cakes View Post
actually, i believe its the new way. aspen snowmass teaches this and they only started within the past few years. they are trying to eliminate the "floating leaf" which leads to very bad habits that are very hard to break. I've taught people the shoulder turn and had them linking turns by the end of the first day.

to the point though, we still don't turn with our feet, we turn with our hips and the shoulder turn method teaches that. the feet and legs only connect us to the board.

chop off your legs and as long as your strapped in somehow, you can still ride effectively.
Well, that would imply that steering with your back foot like a rudder is correct technique, because you would be turning with your hips, pivoting back and forth. This is universally not correct, and its a good way to catch snow and fall. Of course the hips play a big part, but its not the only thing. Turning starts with putting pressure on either edge of the board from your front foot and torsionally flexing it, then following through with shifting your weight as the edge bites in. Just turning hips wouldnt alone wouldnt lead to correct carving. And Im an experienced rider and my shoulders have nothing to do with how I ride. it does in the park for rotation and counter rotation doing tricks, but not regular riding
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well, that would imply that steering with your back foot like a rudder is correct technique, because you would be turning with your hips, pivoting back and forth. This is universally not correct, and its a good way to catch snow and fall. Of course the hips play a big part, but its not the only thing. Turning starts with putting pressure on either edge of the board from your front foot and torsionally flexing it, then following through with shifting your weight as the edge bites in. Just turning hips wouldnt alone wouldnt lead to correct carving. And Im an experienced rider and my shoulders have nothing to do with how I ride. it does in the park for rotation and counter rotation doing tricks, but not regular riding
you're missing my point. i've been riding for a long time as well and i was taught the way you are explaning.

the physics in what you are saying don't add up. if i'm at the pinnacle of a heelside carve, your first move is not to torsionally flex your front foot but to slightly close your front hip while releasing the previous turn's centrifugal force.

this allows an easy transfer of weight without fear of catch due to the fact that releasing that force creates a moment of zero gravity.

outside of park riding, at no point should your feet ever be out of alignment with your hips
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