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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 03:29 PM
long101
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Snowboarding for a few years, still cant carve

Kind of embarressing. Check that very embarressing. So I orignally started snowboarding with some friends that were pretty decent so I didnt take the time to learn how to carve/stop on my toe side. So going down the mountain I only go straight or my heel side. If I need to turn the other way I will switch my stance from regular to goofy and then turn on my heel side.

I know this is horrible and I think its pretty unsafe. Surprisingly I can get down the mountain fairly quick doing this not too far behind everyone else. Thats really the reason why I havent killed myself trying to learn toe side. Recently I went to a local snowboarding 'hill' (im in Chicago) and tried a bit to learn toe side and I still cant get it. Im leaving to Breckenridge in a few weeks and want to learn before I go. So some ?s....

Since I have been snowboarding the 'wrong way' would it be more difficult or less to learn toe side?
Im not really adverse to falling, but when you are praticing how much speed should you have when you try toe side? I would fall every time I would try it so I would like it to hurt a bit less since everything over here is ice.
Do you think it can be learned spending 10 hours at a mountain? Or is it something that takes a year? IE is it even worth it to try and learn for Breck or am I going to go back to my half assed way since Ill suck the other way.

Any and all advise is appreciated. Let the bashing begin
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 03:37 PM
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Nothing to be embarrassed about. First things first.

Before you learn how to carve, you need to learn how to turn. Before you can turn you need to learn how to use your toe side edge. Try side slipping and doing traverses on your toe side.

It's tough just throwing ideas out without seeing what's really going on. My best recommendation would be for you to get hooked up with a qualified coach who could probably get you linking turns in one lesson. It's money well spent and it sounds like you've struggled for long enough.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 10:02 AM
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We have the full learn to snowboard lesson on video. Those should get you going in the right direction.

As a side note, this is why I don;t like teaching new riders the sideslip, it becomes a crutch so they don't have to learn to turn.

--rick

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 10:11 AM
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thats for all the responses guys. To tell you the truth I never even thought about going down the hill doing a side slip toe side (I dont know why not, thats how I learnded heal side). Im going to try and go to a local place twice before heading to CO, hopefully with a little luck I can get that portion down so I dont suck during my trip.
I looked into lessons at a local place but they were large classes and were for people that dont know how to board at all, so they would spend most of the time going over how to stand up and get on the lift. Any other idea or words of encouragement let me know
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SnowProRick View Post
We have the full learn to snowboard
As a side note, this is why I don;t like teaching new riders the sideslip, it becomes a crutch so they don't have to learn to turn.

--rick
Sure, if all they do is sideslip on one edge. Teach them to do it on both edges, and turns come quickly. If they do the transition while standing, they are turning.

If I had ideal teaching terrain I probably wouldn't use it as much. Unfortunately I don't have ideal terrain.

I've heard some areas in the Rockies will fire you for teaching a falling leaf. It sounds a bit extreme and I don't understand the bias.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 11:11 AM
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There are a couple reasons...
1) As I said it becomes a crutch. The rider can get down the hill just fine, so why learn to turn for real. This is especially a problem when lessons are and hour or two with no time to really get to turns. We have areas here whose goal is to get newbies sideslipping and then turn them loose on the rest of us

2) What is a better run to learn to sideslip, bunny hill or black diamond? Answer is a black diamond, steep hills are much easier to sideslip. So why try to teach a beginner who doesn't have the skills or muscle to do it on a bunny hill? Side slipping flat runs is hard for good riders! It just wears the student out so they are too tired to learn the rest.

J turns - Chairlift - Garlands - C turns - Linking Gives students a really good chance at learning quickly and with less pain (from falling or just muscle fatigue).

--rick

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 12:56 PM
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Good site, Rick but a lot of your content needs editing for clarity.


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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
Nothing to be embarrassed about.

Before you learn how to carve, you need to learn how to turn. Before you can turn you need to learn how to use your toe side edge. Try side slipping and doing traverses on your toe side.

It's tough just throwing ideas out without seeing what's really going on. My best recommendation would be for you to get hooked up with a qualified coach who could probably get you linking turns in one lesson. It's money well spent and it sounds like you've struggled for long enough.
First things first, like Grizz said. That cheezy adage, gotta crawl before you walk...Gotta turn before you carve...Don't be embarrassed. Every rider struggles at one point or another with something, and I've discovered (from personal experience) that making the transition from heel side to toe side is one of the most difficult things for a newer rider to concquer. I am still working on perfecting my toe side turns now, thanks to Snowolf and the veteran riders here, it's starting to come together, a season later

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Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Ben Gay for your sore calf muscles......

Toe side traverses build huge calf muscles, but starting out is painful. One thing that really helps (both to relieve the burn and to improve your riding) is sink down and rest your shins on the tongues of your boots. As soon as you start doing these, you will know exactly what I mean....
I remember this...I toe side traversed the whole way down Cornice (a very steep black) my second time ever riding. Granted, I had no business up there...it took me 1 1/2 hrs to get to the bottom. Some gentle soul passed by me struggling and told me to just rest on my shins a bit (but also make sure your boot are tight so that when your heel lifts up for the toe edge, that your boot goes with it, otherwise you'll get that heel edge). Saved my ass that day, literally.

The next time, and every time since, I've only heelside traversed the steep once I was comfortable looking down the mountain and how steep it was. I agree, it can become a crutch, I was getting down the hill in good speed, but then when looking at everyone else I realized how ridiculous I looked and that i'm in the fucking way!!!. Having the advantage of traversing on both heel and toe, however, does help the transition, you will know exactly how much flex is needed to keep you from catching an edge and how to parlay those into turns.

I could have saved myself alot of pain and suffering had I taken an additional lesson. BUT, if you don't have access to lessons, it can be done. Snowolf and Rick have some great vids and there is soooo much info here about this, you sound committed to it, so you will do it! I would in no way, be where I am in my riding now without Snowolf, and the support of the other members.

Don't ever be embarrassed about riding, there is nothing wrong at all with being aware of your ability level, e.g. what you can do, what you need to work on, and your desire to improve. Example: Every time we go to Mammoth, I always go to the top, sideslip the steep, then start turning lower down. This trip I decided NOT to go to the top. I think anyone can get down the hill, black, blue, green, whatever, but it's how you get down that matters. I decided I'm not going up there again until I can handle that shit for real! At first I felt like I was bitching out, but I realize there is honor in wanting to improve and do it right!

Keep reading, watching vids, visualize yourself on the mountain, keep practicing. If you can get a lesson, great, it's for sure the best route - if you can't, don't worry, you can still do it, there is great info/tips/vids and great support here! It can - and will - be done!

Every turn is a blessing.

Last edited by dharmashred; 01-06-2010 at 02:57 PM.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 06:56 PM
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Good site, Rick but a lot of your content needs editing for clarity.
I'm not trying to be a dink, but are you serious??? Of all the issues that one could have with our videos, clarity is pretty low on the list (lots of fan e-mails to back this up). I would really know what exactly you mean. Are you an instructor looking for ultra tech, big words, AASI stuff? Our videos are for normal people who are learning.

I am really curious, please explain...

--rick

--Rick

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 11:26 PM
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I'm not trying to be a dink, but are you serious??? Of all the issues that one could have with our videos, clarity is pretty low on the list (lots of fan e-mails to back this up). I would really know what exactly you mean. Are you an instructor looking for ultra tech, big words, AASI stuff? Our videos are for normal people who are learning.

I am really curious, please explain...

--rick
Curious myself. Granted, I only watched two but they seemed well scripted and filmed. Your production value is high for a home grown website. You obviously put some time and hard work into the project. Nice job.
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