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Frustrated Amputee

7K views 63 replies 12 participants last post by  chomps1211 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone-
I am an amputee (left, below knee) with mild cerebral palsy (which significantly affects the amount of flex in my right ankle). I have been boarding for approximately three years and am now frustrated with my lack of progress. I have inserted heel lifts in my boots and changed the angles on my prosthesis to what makes sense to me.

Here are my questions:
1. Would incorrect sized heel lifts (I think I have 3/4" ones) and/or leg angles make significant differences in my abilities?
2. Are boot fitters trained enough to understand the biomechanics of someone with "special needs"?
3. Would my money be better spent with lessons from someone who can think outside the box and let me know what I am doing wrong (I've yet to find such a person; when I get lessons everyone wants me to do it the way they were trained, which is not always physically possible) or with someone who can make sure the physical mechanics are proper?

I have always felt I could trial and error my way into fitting my boots/prosthesis and I have gotten lessons but now I am beginning to wonder. Your thoughts appreciated.

Best,
E
 
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#2 ·
Boot fitting, even with the best fitters, is going to be trial and error with you.

I would suggest going to a big resort that has a larger and well established program for "special needs" people. They have people that specialize in para/sit ski, amputees, blind and whatever other number of special needs people may have. Vail has a pretty decent one but I'm sure others do too.
 
#3 ·
Thanks.
I have used some of the adaptive programs in New Hampshire and Maine. They are great! What I have noticed is there is a ton of knowledge on adaptive skiing but not so much for snowboarders. Thank you for all your help ARGO. You have always offered informed suggestions to my posts and I have taken them to heart.
Best,
E
 
#5 ·
So, this is what is frustrating.... Any thoughts (without video I know this is close to impossible; just looking for suggestions)?

I ride goofy with my amp side in the back. My toe side is strong and controlled however, when I go to heel side my back leg tends to swing all the way around making me perpendicular to the hill. I have tried weighting my front leg more and focusing on keeping my shoulder from moving too much toward the back. It does not seem to change anything.

E
 
#6 ·
I'm gonna say that the likelihood of you getting bad advice from here from people applying what they think is the right thing for your situation is as likely as good advice.

I really think you need to get in contact with some sort of regional/national adaptive snowboard organization.

Not discouraging your asking, just saying in general there may not be much experience in this area.
 
#11 ·
f00bar is probably right, but I'm going to just throw this out there anyways. Have your tried setting your back foot to a positive angle? Or maybe even at zero. I could see it being easier to control a board when your prosthesis foot is straight, perpendicularly to the boot at 0 degrees. Kind of how it is when you walk, instead of -15 degrees and the toes aren't under your weight. And if you go a positive degree, like people who hard boot carve, it may overall be easier to cruise down the mountain with shifting your weight and control through your front leg.

I hope that makes sense. And who knows, I could be completely off, but just wanted to put that idea out there. I truly hope you find what helps you get out there and shred! Take care and keep us up to date.

P.S. Is there a way for a prosthetist to make a foot or mold for a particular snowboard boot so that it fills up the entire space or is that what you are using now?
 
#16 ·
Alright looking good.

In under 1 min of posting.
I got this pm.


Hey Bud! Saw your post.. have the girl who lost her leg reach out to a good friend of mine - Michelle Salt. Michelle lost her right lower leg in a motorcycle accident a few years back. She's now a member of the Canadian Paralympic Team for Snowboard Cross, and would definitely be open to talking to her...!

Much love,

Matty

Hugs and kisses Chicky poo.
I'm sure more is on its way.


TT
 
#17 ·
Adaptive Action Sports at Copper Mountain is where she'll find answers. They have a great little workshop setup in their office in their office there, where they're tinkering with prosthetics and boot/board/binding/cant plate setups all the time. Tell her to ask for Daniel Gale and Amy Purdy. The prosthetics themselves are important, too: a lot of the Paralympic snowboarders are now using the Versa Foot (and Moto Knee) developed by Mike Schultz, an X Games Moto X and SnoCross athlete who is now also on the U.S. Paralympic Snowboard Team.


TT
 
#19 ·
Just remember that "normal" riders also hit plateaus that can take seasons worth of riding to break through. I'm a rather large dude and these types of habits are/were hard for me to break. I have actually only come across one other snowboarder in person that was my size and could ride with a pack of high level riding normals....

By normals i mean that Realistically if your not a 160lb 5'10" man with a size 9 foot your having to adapt to equipment built for the wrong person.
 
#22 ·
LOL. So true. Hubby and son fall into the "built for" category. Plus they are naturally balanced and graceful. When I ask either of them how they do something on the board they have no idea. They're the ones going down the hill making it look completely effortless. Jerks. :)
 
#21 ·
Also, I posted that so you know that everyone's got that thing they do that they want to not do. That thing they cant do that they want to do....

Like for starting out you are falling leaf riding and want to make those s turns.... all the sudden you find the mechanics that makes it click. Then you know and do it from now on.
 
#26 ·
Here's the website for that foot and knee designed by Mike Schultz: http://www.biodaptinc.com/m/index.htm -- there are several other brands used by snowboarders, including one that uses giant rubber bands instead of racing shocks, but this is the one I'm most familiar with from my reporting.
 

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#29 · (Edited)
Okay that makes a lot of sense Essie.

Here's my $0.02 (although I certainly like the suggestions above of finding a specialty coach who can physically look at, and tweak your setup and/or technique)...

The large S turns you're doing are great for speed control. We actually have trouble getting new snowboard patrollers to work on completing their turns (i.e. getting the board perpendicular to the fall line).

Am I guessing correctly when I say you're current riding style is similar to this? Fast forward over any talking and just watch his turns.



Where you'd prefer to get to the riding from 1:14 to 1:20 in this video? Also check out the other CASI videos for Level 3 and 4 riding standards, there's some really impressive riding in those vids.



If that's the case, I would suggest going on a slightly more mellow run than you usually ride on, and work on making quicker, shorter turns, bringing the board less across the fall line. Ramp up the speed a little for the more mellow terrain.

As Wrath mentioned, getting from very round S turns, to shorter quicker turns is part of the standard progression of snowboarding. It comes from lots of time getting comfortable with your turns, and gradually making changes to push the envelope. Although a good instructor or coach will be able to identify and hopefully correct any riding/gear issues holding you back, the comfort level really comes from hours and hours on the slopes.

I've been reading your threads through this whole learning process, and my biggest piece of advice is: have fun! It's a sport that can challenge you until the day you die, even if you ride 100+ days a year, and the only way to keep up with it is to make sure your first goal is having fun.

You're an inspiration to people like me!
 
#30 ·
Okay that makes a lot of sense Essie.
I would suggest going on a slightly more mellow run than you usually ride on, and work on making quicker, shorter turns, bringing the board less across the fall line.
I'm glad it does to somebody! :laugh2:
Yes! Yes! Yes! This is exactly what I am talking about and where I am struggling. Thank you! I need to figure out how to bring the board less across the fall line but still stay on edge. IE make the turn quicker. Hubby is pushing to go to Copper to Action Adaptive (Thanks TT). Something tells me he might want to SB there. :wink:

E
 
#32 ·
Another question/comment:

I am in good shape. I work out daily. My prosthetist is always amazed at the strength of my thigh muscles <insert joke>. But honestly, I cannot make it down a run without stopping and resting at least once. My thighs usually burn to the point where they become rubber. Does this happen to others?

E
 
#33 ·
I'm in terrible shape and the only thing I do that even remotely counts as exercise is snowboard. I'm otherwise working at a computer or playing video games.

For me, the most exhausting part of riding is standing in the lift line. Riding down while working on my turns does lead to muscle soreness after a while, but it's never tiring or painful while doing it. The chairlift ride is mostly about recovering from standing in line.

I'm on greens and easy blues, so that might have something to do with my experience, but the typical experience should not involve being tired in the middle of one run. On the short run I ride I can typically do 5 before feeling any tiredness.
 
#39 ·
For what it's worth, I'm a patroller that still falls every day! It's part of snowboarding, the goal is to limit the season ending/shortening injuries. If you're catching edges, or having another issue that causes a violent fall, then it may be good to step back a notch and head back to slightly easier terrain to rebuild the confidence.

The trouble with the recent injury is that it likely is making you more tense when riding, when what you really need is to be loose and dynamic. Some people find their riding gets better after a beer or shot of booze, which I don't recommend, and the reason is it helps them get a little loose (insert joke here)... :embarrased1:

I told my wife this when she first started riding 7 years ago: You're going to make progress, and then you're going to have a fall that scares you and makes you take a step back. It's part of the learning process, and the main thing is to not let it stop you from snowboarding all together.

Sure enough, about 3 years into it she had a funny toeside turn, caught her edge, and tore her MCL. Spooked her pretty good for the rest of that season. Fast forward to today, and she's one of the few people that can keep up with me all over the mountain. She's a better rider than many patrollers... :surprise:

As hard as it is, don't compare your progression to others, some people can hop on a board and pick it up in a matter of days, some people take years to get comfortable making intermediate turns on intermediate runs.
 
#43 ·
I just sent in an email to get information for Adaptive Action Sports @ Copper. Hubby is already looking at hotel prices. I think he is salivating a little too. We were talking and he says the biggest thing he notices is I tend to ride way forward on my board (all my weight on my front leg). He has told me this before. I guess I struggle with this because when I was learning "get onto the front of your board" seemed to be the rally cry of the instructors.

Thank you again to you all. You really cheered me up and now I have some things to try next time I go out.

Best,
E
PS I am now getting airline quotes and mountain/resorts stats from hubby. The words, "If you can't get off work, I might go without you." actually came out of his mouth. Death stare followed.
 
#47 ·
I guess I struggle with this because when I was learning "get onto the front of your board" seemed to be the rally cry of the instructors.

Thank you again to you all. You really cheered me up and now I have some things to try next time I go out.
Great!

Honestly it sounds like you'd be an instructors dream... "You ride on the front of your board, and complete your turns too much..." said no instructor ever!

Sounds like the trip would be fun! Never been to Colorado myself, although Montana and Wyoming are beautiful from what I've seen.
 
#45 ·
I lay flat right in the lift line between runs. When people start bitching I just give them the good old "namaste".... I mean what else are they gonna say after that.

Really though, I stop mid run plenty when its a powder day and I'm riding higher than intermediate terrain.


I am sure some place like big bear I could ride for 17 hours straight smashing 45 second groomers while resting 10 minutes on each lift ride, as a matter of fact I can do that at bachelor with 2 minute groomer runs..... the more snow and steepness you add the more you work and need to stop. The more timid and nervouse your ride will also shoot that ratio up....
 
#54 ·
I took a lesson Saturday to increase my confidence. After listening to me the instructor brought me on a couple of runs I have always been afraid to try. I killed them!!:laugh2:
Two comments the instructor gave that I did not already know were:
1) Poutanen, you'll appreciate this... I tended to get really high up on my edges (particularly toe side), and
2) my stance was really narrow.

So, Sunday I widened my stance on my Burton Nugget (with channel system) to 18" and Monday headed back out. The first run was a little rough but after that I picked up speed and tried some more new-to-me runs. Overall, I had the most successful day snowboarding EVER!

Here's the rub. Try not to laugh or cringe (and I do recognize how lucky I was).... when I got home and was removing my board from the Jeep I noticed that the bindings looked "off". I brought it inside and it turns out I had not tightened the screws enough on my bindings. The front binding had moved to the furthest back position and the back had also moved further back. The bindings were 19" apart.

Now, I can't decide if I should move them to what I had (centered, 18" apart) or keep it offset. I have no idea when the bindings actually moved. Good thing is with the channel system it's an easy change; I just need to make sure I tighten everything enough. :wink:

Best,
E
 
#56 ·
Overall, I had the most successful day snowboarding EVER!
That's awesome!!! An 18" stance is still quite narrow, now I'm not sure how the leg would affect the stance however. Most people say my stance is too narrow, and I ride with about a 20.5" stance width (measured from centre to centre of bindings)

I'd be tempted to put the bindings back to reference position, then slide them equally in or out until you get to the 19" range. Try a run or three with that setup before changing again. Gotta love the channel, eh? :)

Tighten the screws well, I usually use a cordless drill with a clutch set to it's highest setting (likely around 10-15 lb-ft).

Again, HAVE FUN! Sounds like you are...
 
#61 ·
Cool, I'd put them at ref, then bump each in 1/2 - 3/4 inch and start from there. I've tried going 2-3" wider than I typically like, and while it felt weird, it wasn't unridable. Experiment with stance, it might be one of the things stopping you from feeling more comfortable!

As always, have fun. :grin:
 
#62 ·
Experiment with stance, it might be one of the things stopping you from feeling more comfortable!
^This!
Stance/angles are nothing written in stone. Over the years, I've played a lot with angles and width and every other handfull years a different set-up felt better. Especially width makes a big difference in balance IMO.

I now ride a stance which is wider stance than the ref stance of my boards (22.9" @ 32.7" inseam). However, each time I get a new board, I first set it up at reference to get a feel for them. That stance is ok-ish on nice groomers, but once I get into pow or moguls and need more option to ride low, to have power for quick turns, I really feel the restriction of that too narrow stance. A quick shift of the bindings in the gondola only by 3cm (1.18") and it's night and day difference to me. The wider stance gives me better balance and quicker, more powerful reaction.

Have a scredriver in your pocket and slowly bit by bit try to go wider. Give your body a half day to adapt to the stance; changing angles/stance always feels wired at first. If you later feel comfy and feel that it helps to ride low and keep balance, great! Widen a notch more the next time. Rinse repeat until you get to a point where you feel that it's not getting better. Ride a year like that and next season, do the experiment again.
 
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