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Old 04-14-2010, 01:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What is this snowboarding technique?

I bought a book to help me with snowboarding technique. I started reading it but then got stuck pretty quick on one of the key movements. English is not my first language so it could be the language barrier. I think its probably a stupidity barrier, i.e. I may just be a little slow. Is there anyone out there who knows what this movement is and could you describe it in your own words? Most of all, is it possible to practice this move at home on the carpet? Any help would be much appreciated.

Key Movement 3: Steering Movements

These are twisting motions you make with your feet, legs and hips to guide your board through turns. When you steer, you pivot the board around a point midway between the bindings. These movements work in concert with edging movements to help you control speed and direction.

As you steer, move your feet interdependently. Twist your front foot in the direction of the turn while pushing the rear foot away from the turn. Try not to push the tail out abruptly. The movement of your front foot should be complemented by the movement of your rear foot to guide the board through a round arc where the tail follows the tip.
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What is your first language?
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Old 04-14-2010, 04:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetraveler View Post
I bought a book to help me with snowboarding technique. I started reading it but then got stuck pretty quick on one of the key movements. English is not my first language so it could be the language barrier. I think its probably a stupidity barrier, i.e. I may just be a little slow. Is there anyone out there who knows what this movement is and could you describe it in your own words? Most of all, is it possible to practice this move at home on the carpet? Any help would be much appreciated.

Key Movement 3: Steering Movements

These are twisting motions you make with your feet, legs and hips to guide your board through turns. When you steer, you pivot the board around a point midway between the bindings. These movements work in concert with edging movements to help you control speed and direction.

As you steer, move your feet interdependently. Twist your front foot in the direction of the turn while pushing the rear foot away from the turn. Try not to push the tail out abruptly. The movement of your front foot should be complemented by the movement of your rear foot to guide the board through a round arc where the tail follows the tip.
When they are taking about steering movements they are mainly talking about flex and extenion of body parts as the body movement, and pivot and twist as the board performance on the snow. Rotation is going to be achieved primarily in the body by a ball and socket joint like the hip. For snowboarding when you rotate the feet or knee the actual joint rotating is the hip socket. visually it will look like your foot or knee moving like a wiper blade on a windshield. If both hips are torating and the spine is lossend up enough this movement can be primarily done with the hips. This movement will cause the board to pivot primarily and twist secondarily on the snow.

Pivot on a board can be visualized as a LP record being turned around , or a propeller blade on a plane. They both spin around a pivot point. For sake of this discussion that pivot point can be under either foot or between them. The twist that happens from rotation is cause by the hinge joints in your body. i.e. knee, ankle(simplification of ankle movement in this case.) If you turn with your hips but leave your feet in place you will notice that your front toe or heel will want to lift/press down while the back foot make the opposite movement. The board will actually twist with this movement putting one side of the heelside edge down and lifting on the other half. The toeside will mirror this movement. This twisting of the board can also be achieved by just your ankles flexing and extending or your knees making it the primary interaction with snow and the pivot happening later when you rotate a joint.

Twisting of the board will press part of the edge of the snowboard into the snow making it turn in that direction. lifting of the whole edge or pivoting of the board can increase the rate of your turn.

To tell you the truth I don't like their discription of turning cause it can lead to back foot kicking to much. Typically what ever you start with your front foot should be mirrored with your back foot. So when they say to push your back leg out(or away from your body) the front leg should have already been doing this same movement and or starting at the same time as your back leg.

Sorry if this was long and winded. The excerpt from the book touched on a lot of interactions with snowboarding. If you need further clarification please let me know and i'll be happy to try and clarify.
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Pivot on a board can be visualized as a LP record being turned around , or a propeller blade on a plane. They both spin around a pivot point. For sake of this discussion that pivot point can be under either foot or between them.
The pivot point can be anywhere along the snowboard, even in the tip and tail outside of the bindings(not always 100% efficient but alot of fun!)

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The twist that happens from rotation is cause by the hinge joints in your body. i.e. knee, ankle(simplification of ankle movement in this case.) If you turn with your hips but leave your feet in place you will notice that your front toe or heel will want to lift/press down while the back foot make the opposite movement.
I would argue that the ankle joint inhibits this. The twist only happens once our boot hits the high back or the the shin presses into the front of the boot, basically once we run out of range of motion in our ankle joint. Stand on the floor with no gear on and turn your hip and your feet stay on the floor. It's one of the reasons why initiating twist from our hips is slower and less effective than doing it directly from your feet.




To the OP, I think they are talking about twisting the board as gjsnowboarder talked about. Use the front foot to twist the board and gently extend the back leg(once the board is 100% on the new edge) to pressure the tail for speed control. As long as you are pressing on the tail with the back leg and not just kicking out the back leg. Kind of a klunky description though........
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Guys guys guys, your explanations are more convoluted and use more technical words than the book. Thetraveler has said English is not his first language. Having spent several years working in the UN in different countries with people from other countries that use English as a Second Lanuguage (ESL) I quickly realised I had to speak very plainly. Short sentences and basic words to get myself FULLY understood. The English language is serisouly hard to learn and understand for non=native speakers.

Pawlo, well done lets see if we can find out what Thetraveler's first language is and maybe someone here also speaks it and can explain a lot better.


Not having a go at you guys (gjsnowboarder, Jim1976) I can see you spent some time thinking and typing in your responses.

Regards
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Old 04-14-2010, 06:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My first language is Serbian. I very much doubt anyone here has a handle on that one.

However, I did find a short video on snowboard steering and maybe you guys can take a look at it and tell me if the thing in the video is the same thing that is being described in the book.

YouTube - Riding Tip: Steering

Cheers


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What is your first language?
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Originally Posted by gjsnowboarder View Post
When they are taking about steering movements they are mainly talking about flex and extenion of body parts as the body movement, and pivot and twist as the board performance on the snow. Rotation is going to be achieved primarily in the body by a ball and socket joint like the hip. For snowboarding when you rotate the feet or knee the actual joint rotating is the hip socket. visually it will look like your foot or knee moving like a wiper blade on a windshield. If both hips are torating and the spine is lossend up enough this movement can be primarily done with the hips. This movement will cause the board to pivot primarily and twist secondarily on the snow.

Pivot on a board can be visualized as a LP record being turned around , or a propeller blade on a plane. They both spin around a pivot point. For sake of this discussion that pivot point can be under either foot or between them. The twist that happens from rotation is cause by the hinge joints in your body. i.e. knee, ankle(simplification of ankle movement in this case.) If you turn with your hips but leave your feet in place you will notice that your front toe or heel will want to lift/press down while the back foot make the opposite movement. The board will actually twist with this movement putting one side of the heelside edge down and lifting on the other half. The toeside will mirror this movement. This twisting of the board can also be achieved by just your ankles flexing and extending or your knees making it the primary interaction with snow and the pivot happening later when you rotate a joint.

Twisting of the board will press part of the edge of the snowboard into the snow making it turn in that direction. lifting of the whole edge or pivoting of the board can increase the rate of your turn.

To tell you the truth I don't like their discription of turning cause it can lead to back foot kicking to much. Typically what ever you start with your front foot should be mirrored with your back foot. So when they say to push your back leg out(or away from your body) the front leg should have already been doing this same movement and or starting at the same time as your back leg.

Sorry if this was long and winded. The excerpt from the book touched on a lot of interactions with snowboarding. If you need further clarification please let me know and i'll be happy to try and clarify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlm1976 View Post
The pivot point can be anywhere along the snowboard, even in the tip and tail outside of the bindings(not always 100% efficient but alot of fun!)



I would argue that the ankle joint inhibits this. The twist only happens once our boot hits the high back or the the shin presses into the front of the boot, basically once we run out of range of motion in our ankle joint. Stand on the floor with no gear on and turn your hip and your feet stay on the floor. It's one of the reasons why initiating twist from our hips is slower and less effective than doing it directly from your feet.




To the OP, I think they are talking about twisting the board as gjsnowboarder talked about. Use the front foot to twist the board and gently extend the back leg(once the board is 100% on the new edge) to pressure the tail for speed control. As long as you are pressing on the tail with the back leg and not just kicking out the back leg. Kind of a klunky description though........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavman View Post
Guys guys guys, your explanations are more convoluted and use more technical words than the book. Thetraveler has said English is not his first language. Having spent several years working in the UN in different countries with people from other countries that use English as a Second Lanuguage (ESL) I quickly realised I had to speak very plainly. Short sentences and basic words to get myself FULLY understood. The English language is serisouly hard to learn and understand for non=native speakers.

Pawlo, well done lets see if we can find out what Thetraveler's first language is and maybe someone here also speaks it and can explain a lot better.


Not having a go at you guys (gjsnowboarder, Jim1976) I can see you spent some time thinking and typing in your responses.

Regards
My first language is Serbian. I very much doubt anyone here has a handle on that one.

However, I did find a short video on snowboard steering and maybe you guys can take a look at it and tell me if the thing in the video is the same thing that is being described in the book.

YouTube - Riding Tip: Steering

Cheers
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thetraveler View Post
These are twisting motions you make with your feet, legs and hips to guide your board through turns. When you steer, you pivot the board around a point midway between the bindings. These movements work in concert with edging movements to help you control speed and direction.

As you steer, move your feet interdependently. Twist your front foot in the direction of the turn while pushing the rear foot away from the turn. Try not to push the tail out abruptly. The movement of your front foot should be complemented by the movement of your rear foot to guide the board through a round arc where the tail follows the tip.
English is not my first language and the twist or torsional steering baffled me til coming across a description using body parts. This stuff is also referred to as the "gas pedal", "big toe/little toe", "steering with your leading knee" and "hump and dump". Do this at home on the carpet and you will feel what is described and look closely at the board and you will see the board twisting.

The main thing to focus on imho; is to think of steering the board with your leading knee...its more efficient because it is the largest joint and muscles nearest the board. To steer toeside, just bend your knee and point or drive it toward the center of the turn. You will also notice more pressure on your ball and/or big toe of the leading foot.

To steer heelside, swing your leading knee forward toward the nose. You will notice more pressure on the outside or little toe side of the leading foot and your leading knee will have some slight twisting pressure.

As for other body parts during a turn...you want your body stacked, that is your leading ankle, hip and shoulder to be aligned or staked over each other. So standing on your board in a relaxed athletic posture; your knees are slightly bent, back straight and hips/pelvis sunk into your center of gravity...no stinky butt or bending over at the waist...think of your board as the bottom of a cereal box and generally you keep all your body parts inside the cereal box. To turn you want to slightly weight the nose of the board...do this by shifting your hips sideways toward the nose of the board. So...besides bending or swinging your leading knee, your hips/pelvis are also humping...thrusting when turning toeside.......or dumping...shitting/sitting when going heelside. And for your shoulders need to be parallel with the board and your leading shoulder will dip or lower when going toeside and rise when going heelside.

So toeside...pressure on the big toe, knee driving toward the center, hips shifted toward the nose and pelvis humping with leading shoulder dipping. And heelside...pressure on the outside of the foot, knee swinging or pushed toward the nose, hips shifted toward the nose and pelvis dumping or squatting with shoulder rising.

As for your trailing foot, knee and shoulder, just let follow the leading side.

Frist try to isolate each of these movements, then once you get the feel and how your board responds...start to coordinate and integrate the movements together.
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That was my point...being Italian myself I know that you need to hear the literal trasnslation sometimes to really get the point...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavman View Post
Guys guys guys, your explanations are more convoluted and use more technical words than the book. Thetraveler has said English is not his first language. Having spent several years working in the UN in different countries with people from other countries that use English as a Second Lanuguage (ESL) I quickly realised I had to speak very plainly. Short sentences and basic words to get myself FULLY understood. The English language is serisouly hard to learn and understand for non=native speakers.

Pawlo, well done lets see if we can find out what Thetraveler's first language is and maybe someone here also speaks it and can explain a lot better.


Not having a go at you guys (gjsnowboarder, Jim1976) I can see you spent some time thinking and typing in your responses.

Regards
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jlm1976 View Post
The pivot point can be anywhere along the snowboard, even in the tip and tail outside of the bindings(not always 100% efficient but alot of fun!)
since we were talking about a basic skidded turn I decided to limit the number of pivot points on the board to relation to specific body parts since typically in that type of turn you don't move beyond your feet for a pivot point. Now if we were talking about nose rolls etc. I fully agree that there is a large number of possibly pivot points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlm1976 View Post
I would argue that the ankle joint inhibits this. The twist only happens once our boot hits the high back or the the shin presses into the front of the boot, basically once we run out of range of motion in our ankle joint. Stand on the floor with no gear on and turn your hip and your feet stay on the floor. It's one of the reasons why initiating twist from our hips is slower and less effective than doing it directly from your feet.
While I agree that the ankle joint can limit twist I disagree that it fully does is this case since the deck can be twisted with just a press down movement. Granted the twist is not going to be large, but I can twist deck in bare feet. It the use of a boot or high-back with that longer lever that can help assist this move.

With the hip movement you are correct that it is slower for that movement to reach out to the board, but when in the act of snowboarding typically there is some twist involved due to the weight of the rider and slope of the hill. That movement on flat ground may only feel like the toe or heel pressing done very slightly but that is enough to generate twist except on really stiff decks.
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