Foot Steering / Foot Peddling vs Shoulder Steering - Page 3 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
SnowboardingForum.com is the premier Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2010, 09:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
Leo
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Detroit Area
Posts: 6,230
Default

Leading with your lower body and feet make absolute sense. However, what we are trying to figure out is why abandon upper body movement altogether? Do you guys instruct against upper body movement in all situations (minus freestyle)?
__________________
www.aGNARchy.com Reviews and David Z's rants
Leo is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-10-2010, 09:37 AM   #22 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Cr0_Reps_Smit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SMiThville, NJ (Summit County in winter)
Posts: 1,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo View Post
Leading with your lower body and feet make absolute sense. However, what we are trying to figure out is why abandon upper body movement altogether? Do you guys instruct against upper body movement in all situations (minus freestyle)?
when i use to teach beginners a lot i would have them always keep their shoulders stacked over the board until they became more comfortable riders to prevent them from learning any bad habits and once the kid has progressed enough we'd start messing around with different kinds of dynamic turns and such. shoulders have a lot less to do with turns then you might think but there are still situations where it is appropriate

also i dont necessarily teach them NOT to move their shoulders at all but more so to keep them generally above their board as to keep your weight over their board instead of over the snow throwing them off balance slightly in turns. no matter what your shoulders tend to follow through with the turn but that doesnt mean you cant keep then stacked over your board for better weight distribution or that its your shoulders thats initiating the turn.
__________________

Last edited by Cr0_Reps_Smit; 09-10-2010 at 09:41 AM.
Cr0_Reps_Smit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2010, 09:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
Leo
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Detroit Area
Posts: 6,230
Default

Okay, that's what I was wondering.

When I ride, I do keep my shoulders squared. However, when I'm on steeper terrains and need to make a quick and tight turn to avoid an obstacle that I saw too late, I do in fact use my upper body. Also, there are times where I will dig my fists into the snow for toe side turning, but that's more for fun than anything

I also use my upper body in mogul fields. I use the method Snowolf posted some time ago, "hop turning". I do have to use my hips in that situation because I have to purposely lift the tail of my board and use my shoulders/hips to turn the board tightly.

But I totally understand why it is important that beginners learn to keep their shoulders squared and start with the feet.
__________________
www.aGNARchy.com Reviews and David Z's rants
Leo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2010, 09:57 AM   #24 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

You guys are all granpa's

I steer my board using my psychic telekinesis and I avoid running into noobs bwith my clairvoyance and ESP.
Tarzanman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2010, 09:59 AM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
HoboMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzanman View Post
You guys are all granpa's

I steer my board using my psychic telekinesis and I avoid running into noobs bwith my clairvoyance and ESP.
Your Aura is Purple!!!!!
__________________
PowderHound and TreeNinja
HoboMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 07:58 AM   #26 (permalink)
Leo
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Detroit Area
Posts: 6,230
Default

Nice explanation Snowolf (as always on these matters).

In my defense, I don't ever exclusively use my upper body even in moguls. Always lower body first, but I do put my upper body into play because either I don't know any better, or I just can't navigate moguls without the help of upper body.

On the deeper carving note, I'm going to pay close attention next season to my carving. I want to see if I'm using any upper body. I hope not after reading your post :P
__________________
www.aGNARchy.com Reviews and David Z's rants
Leo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 08:14 AM   #27 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: England, North East
Posts: 91
Default

Hey thanks Snowolf.

Oops, didn't really think about what I was asking with the carving on steeps

Is the term "cross under" used in your lingo? The reason I ask, and one of the underlying reasons for the whole thread, is that I've seen some good "riding" instruction in dvd called Go Snowboard. It covers the foot steering approach, and in my opinion has some excellent exercises/drills for learning to carve...

Toward the end, they move onto the "cross under technique", which they advise for use on steep slopes, to control the riders speed. The board crosses under the riders body. You kinda need to see it, a text description won't work well, but the rider kind of dynamically pops to change to the next edge, and before the pop, they've carved the board around to a slight uphill direction.

(bad explanation, sorry)

I've tried the technique, and found it really hard.

In the video, I wouldn't say the terrain they're showing it on is that steep...

So what my question should have been, rather than asking to see someone carve on steep terrain, is:

- I'd like to see someone ride steep terrain with the correct technique -

You referred to "dynamic skidded terms" - I'd like to get better at that

thanks again for the input,

Gavin
__________________
Afterbang Snowboard Blog: keeping the snowboard stoke all year 'round.

You might find these useful: Learn to Snowboard Guide and A Guide to Snowboard Tricks
GavinHope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 09:29 AM   #28 (permalink)
Resident poet
 
wrathfuldeity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bham
Posts: 3,722
Default

Crossunders have a bit of timing thing to coordinate, i.e., so at the extension...pushing out, at the apex then instead of rising your body you use the snap or recoil of the board and you suck your knees up/in to shift the the next edge. You should be comfortable at doing cross overs and going at good speed; having your shoulders aligned to the fall line and then just shifting your hips, suck your knees and extend your legs. There's not that much foot work except to fine tune or subtle to hold carves...like to get that extra bit of bite on heel edge, raise your toes in your boots.
__________________
wrathfuldeity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 12:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
AAA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 387
Default

The only time I can think that I consciously twist the board (foot pedal?) is perhaps during very slow speeds to help initiate a skidded turn when I have no momentum going. It comes as a reflex thing once in a while too, if I'm going very slow and catch an edge. A twist / egde pickup releases the edge and saves a fall.

In general, turn initiation should come from the lower body. Snowolf talks about cross overs and cross unders. In use, cross overs IMO lend themselves more to open ended fall line carving on gentler runs, since they're too slow edge to edge for steeper runs unless you make full C-shapes carves and run them out across the fall line slow down across the transition, which isn't ideal or exactly elegant. Cross unders work better for full larger radius carves and higher speeds. Cross throughs, where you push off/extend just before the apex of the turn and suck in through the transition are more dynamic and give you more control at speed. They can also really give you some pop from edge to edge, when you're carving more down the fall line (less full "C"). Since your load the board so heavily and allow it to release quickly, you get a momentary weightless feel in the transition. It's not uncommon to get air time, too, and at times you have to watch not to vault yourself into the trees.

High edge angles (ie; inclination) provide more bite and less tendency to wash out a carve. Except in good snow, where you can use all board inclination and lay your body out in the snow (ala extreme carving), you'll angulate your body as well to keep your center of mass over the board. On slower runs, it's harder to get a high edge angle and your resulting angulation will come more from bending the knees since you just don't build the centifugal force to hold you up. At higher speeds, the anglulation moves up to your hips. These high edge angles at speed generate tremendous centrifugal force and can bend stiff boards with 15-16 m sidecuts into amazingly tight carves.

Here's some carving on varied pitches, starting with black, then blue, then green. In one of the beginning clips, you can see the edge snap or "pop" during the edge to edge transition. You can get an idea on edge angles and angulation as well. In the ending clips, the board just can't get going fast enough on the green runs to really open up and perform at it's best. In the second video, you can see the extreme pop you can get if you load the board a little "too" much.

YouTube - Carving
YouTube - Snowboard Vault

Last edited by AAA; 09-12-2010 at 12:44 PM.
AAA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 08:05 PM   #30 (permalink)
AAA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 387
Default

Snowolf, Is the board twist (called pedal?) something currently being taught by AASI? With the exception of a couple of recent training sessions with coaches, I haven't had a formal lesson in 20 years. I still try to keep my pulse on the latest technique, but don't recall it being taught then, nor in the last few years with my wife and kid's lessons. Seems like an intro stepping stone, perhaps, but unnecessary as speed develops and momentum carries you through the (skidded) turn.

But, you're right. I've always been a freecarver at heart and generally don't ride skidded turns unless conditions warrant, even back in the day in my softie Burton Comps.
AAA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:04 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums