Park progress ( any tips? ) - Page 4 - Snowboarding Forum

rasmasyean · 02-28-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowolf

Oh really?????

So now you go on to insult everyone on the forum as being so mentally weak as to be "indoctrinated" by the "big bad wolf" and unable to have their own educated opinions....classy!

Of course this statement contradicts the first one, so which is it????

We call it like we see it and the proof is in the riding we see from pro riders and the riding we do everyday. Yeah, there are multiple "styles" but this is a sub forum for people to get advice on how to improve their riding and every system out there from AASI, CASI and camps like HCSC, Windells and Snowboard Addiction all agree on the BEST method for solid progression and all agree your harebrained theories are utter crap.

Yeah Travis Rice and Jeremy Jones (who have great riding form and maintain quiet upper bodies except in "oh shit moments" just make big, lazy carves on bunny hills....

Dude...get real, the kid is like 5 Have you taught a kids progression or been trained in the bio mechanics of children and how they differ from adults?

Where did I or anyone ever say, "yeah, that's all in the hips"? Here is another one of your bizarre circular arguments....

What I said was that for a simple 90 degree pivot from a 50/50 to boardslide, a little hip movement is all it takes and only a retard (such as yourself) thinks they need to whip their arms around. Hell, for 180`s, all I need to do is quick scissoring of the legs and I am around just fine with nothing more than a turn of the head. If you are prewinding and whipping your upper body around just to pull off a 180, then your riding is sub par in this area. Watch a pro rider spin a 5 or 7 and you will see that they use the slight carve (lower body movement) to generate the rotation, not flailing their upper body and that is why they make it clean and stylish.....

I have told you over and over and over and over again, that yes, shoulder rotation has a time and a place such as the anticipatory shoulder rotation in the pipe before the leg retraction from the wall to spin. Note also, that you carve up the wall of the pipe using LOWER BODY MOVEMENTS AS WELL!. Rotation and counter are fine and are used widely in freestyle, but that does not equate to flailing and whipping your arms around to INITIATE the maneuver without consideration of also using lower body movements.

You mean like this?

"...doing boardslides properly, requires a STRONGLY counter-rotated body position..."

You just THINK you need just some "little hip movement", or "quick scissoring of legs" because you yourself are unaware of your subconcious movements. Even some of your own videos show this and you are just too "retarded" to realize it yourself!

init · 02-28-2011, 02:32 PM

Try starting a rotation with your upper body midway through a straight air... Kind of hard because every movement you make starts from the ground right? Even though you "initiate" a turn with your shoulders it wouldn't be possible if your feet werent aligned for it. I know this is taking it a bit far, but it's true.

uh oh a virus · 02-28-2011, 08:19 PM

dont ever stop snowboarding. if he can actually hit a rail when he is like 5, imagine what he would be like when he is 13, or even 20!

Catman · 02-28-2011, 08:37 PM

Here are some more clips from some different angles

The thing is he will do and or change whatever I say, Like I say lets ride switch this run and he just says ok and takes off. So right now he is like putty and I don't want to be the guy that gives him bad advice.

So I am open to learning all that I can to try and stay ahead of his learning curve, So when he asks me for help I can give him the best information I can.

Catman · 02-28-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uh oh a virus

dont ever stop snowboarding. if he can actually hit a rail when he is like 5, imagine what he would be like when he is 13, or even 20!

Good advice

I hope he still loves it at 13

rasmasyean · 03-01-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowolf

Cayman, have you considered sending him out here to Mt. Hood in the summer to High Cascades or Windells camps? If ever I saw a kid with so much potential who could benefit so much from the good AASI certief freestyle coaches, it's this little guy!

I can get you a copy of some of the fundamental information from the AASI Movement Analisys and Freestyle manuals to help you in coaching him if you are interested.

Without getting into another debate about good tecnique that would result in another techno-babbel laced physics lecture from Ras, let's just talk about rotation from a point of when you want it and when you don't. The one thing I am seeing fairly consistently in his riding is the back hand moving out in front of him. If frontside rotation is desired, this works, but I am seeing this when he is trying to not rotate too. Moving that rear hand out in front like this will cause frontside rotation whether he wants it or not. This habit can really be an obstacle for good backside rotations.

I would work on this for now as it is the most prominent thing I am seeing that could develop into a difficult habit to break. As I said before, some of the overuse of upper body and the lack of dynamics, including upper and lower body seperation will develop in time naturally. Right now he is doing what he must to achieve his desired board performance.

Ha! "Physics lecture from Ras"?

That's how all of this stuff works, man! Only when you get to Snowolf's level can a snowboader defy physics!

Let's talk about "scissoring your legs". You just feel like you're "scissoring" but in reality, your feet never come near eachother like a "scissor". It's only in ppl's imagination that they are doing some magic. It's just psychological. How is that possible when your feet are rigidly attached to the board at a fixed length? All you have to do is look at those youtube videos of ppl 180ing real fast (even on flat ground) and you can see it's a board rotation with arms flailing in the opposite direction throwing and stopping the 180. And in the case of the ground one, they can rapidly edge to lock on the snow and bring their arms back to their side real fast. It's a fast movement that many ppl miss perhaps and think it's "quiet and smooth" but it's not when you look for it. And when you are AWARE of these things, that's when you can force your body to learn a lot faster than just trial and error with subconcious movements through tons of itterations. If you understand the basic physics that make it work, it won't help? I mean, you can tell that to the Olympic training team with million dollar analysis equipment and physics software!

I'll show you "scissoring" of legs. @ 00:17 -> smooth coordinated flatground 180

Catman · 03-01-2011, 09:02 PM

Snowolf,
Are those teaching materials online?

Next summer I was thinking of coming out to Hood for a summer camp. Some of the boys that ride here go every summer.

rasmasyean · 03-02-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowolf

No, its pretty simple really...

All you do is pull on one leg and push on the other back and forth. We did this exact "scissoring" exercise in an AASI clinic two weeks ago as part of an overall "dynamic riding theme". Just because you don`t understand doesn't mean it aint so.....

Play around with it....start from a heel side side slip and simply push your front foot down the mountain while pulling the rear foot up the mountain. As the board enters the fall line, "scissor" back the other way to complete the spin. After doing this, go find a wide ride on box and mount it 50/50 then do this "push-pull" thing and voile....instant board slide with no upper body rotation. Same thing off of a small roller or jump for a 180...turn just the head and "scissor" the legs in this manner and you will get the 180 with not prewinding or throwing of the shoulders.

Not continuing the argument against your "style" just showing you that it all can be done with just simple, lower body movement...

Yep...watch closely...he is using mostly lower body movements to pivot the board and then using upper body counter to prevent over rotating. His legs are doing exactly what I described in my previous post. In all of his upper body movements, he is POSITIONING the shoulders to set up for what he is about to do with his lower body, not throwing his upper body to generate the rotation......proves my point perfectly....

What you’re talking about with that heel edge is sort of like what he does @ 00:13. I used to do that all the time when learning switch. But that’s just it…HEEL EDGE. Unlike a box, on the snow you have heel edge pressure rotating your board. Specifically, your forward heel has more pressure than your rear heel when you “push-pull” so the oncoming snow throws the tip “backward”. I wouldn’t have called that “scissoring” myself, unless you’re talking about one with a really really loose screw. But whatever. I guess it’s almost like “walking” scissor motion albeit with a huge bowleg or something.

Though, I still will not believe you can do this on a box or in the air (absent heel edging OR upper body rotation to substitute) unless I see a video. It seems to defy physics.

And in the 00:17 180, I did watch closely and pressed the space bar many times. Of course he has to POSITION his shoulders to face his chest forward. It’s pretty hard to twist your legs so your toes are facing completely opposite of your chest unless you’re like a circus contortionist.

But that’s NOT what I’m talking about. If you press the space bar in the middle of the actual 180, you can see that his arms rotate CW while his board rotates CCW simultaneously. I do this all the time but mostly by popping or rapidly unwieghting because I’m not that good at fine buttering control yet. In these cases, having no edging, you can’t scissor your board without a counter-force coming from your upper body. Even if you’re like a heavy person, and your board is relatively light, you still need some small arm/shoulder motion. And of course a little 6 year old prolly needs a lot.

jayjames · 03-02-2011, 03:28 PM

i was really enjoying reading through this thread until u two started sniping!!

02-28-2011, 08:37 PM	#34 (permalink)
Catman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 295	Here are some more clips from some different angles The thing is he will do and or change whatever I say, Like I say lets ride switch this run and he just says ok and takes off. So right now he is like putty and I don't want to be the guy that gives him bad advice. So I am open to learning all that I can to try and stay ahead of his learning curve, So when he asks me for help I can give him the best information I can. Last edited by Catman; 02-28-2011 at 08:39 PM.

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02-28-2011, 02:32 PM	#32 (permalink)
init Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Kristiansand, Norway Posts: 82	Try starting a rotation with your upper body midway through a straight air... Kind of hard because every movement you make starts from the ground right? Even though you "initiate" a turn with your shoulders it wouldn't be possible if your feet werent aligned for it. I know this is taking it a bit far, but it's true.

02-28-2011, 08:19 PM	#33 (permalink)
uh oh a virus Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 278	dont ever stop snowboarding. if he can actually hit a rail when he is like 5, imagine what he would be like when he is 13, or even 20!

03-01-2011, 09:02 PM	#37 (permalink)
Catman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 295	Snowolf, Are those teaching materials online? Next summer I was thinking of coming out to Hood for a summer camp. Some of the boys that ride here go every summer.

03-02-2011, 03:28 PM	#39 (permalink)
jayjames Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 5	i was really enjoying reading through this thread until u two started sniping!!