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Old 12-07-2011, 10:10 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Head Strong kind of people just want to figure it out and then practice until they get it so give him some tips, show him the task and let him practice. He probably doesn’t need continual feedback after every practice turn and be told everything he is doing right/wrong. Let him practice and if you see him improving with each turn, let him keep practicing and don’t interrupt. If you see consistent problems(like he’s falling every turn or developing a bad habit to avoid falling), then step in and offer some advice.

Avoid using words like “basics” or “fundamentals”, as it makes the person feel like a beginner(even though they are, beginner riders rarely want to admit it, especially if his personality is how you describe). Instead, something like “Hey, you ready to figure out how the board works?” will work wonders. This helps eliminate the “student-teacher” relationship and more a feeling of just riding/practicing together.

For feedback, I rarely point out things they are doing wrong. Reinforce what they are doing right or tell them the right moves they need to do and the bad habits disappear because they don’t need them anymore. Saying “Nice turn, but you keep your legs too straight and it’s keeping you from using your front knee to steer the board. So, bend your legs” is different than “Hey, if you bend your legs some more that front knee move will be more effective”. Both are good feedback and accomplish the same thing, but the second removes the sense that the student is doing anything wrong and only reinforces good movements.

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I always make it it about just going riding and having fun, but also want to do my job. When they get that headstrong attitude of "I`m already an awesome rider; there`s nothing I need to learn from you" attitude, I immediately take them to the steepest gnarliest terrain that is open in the shittiest conditions I can possibly find and make them ride it.
Seriously? You sound like a better instructor than that.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:41 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlm1976 View Post
Head Strong kind of people just want to figure it out and then practice until they get it so give him some tips, show him the task and let him practice. He probably doesn’t need continual feedback after every practice turn and be told everything he is doing right/wrong. Let him practice and if you see him improving with each turn, let him keep practicing and don’t interrupt. If you see consistent problems(like he’s falling every turn or developing a bad habit to avoid falling), then step in and offer some advice.

Avoid using words like “basics” or “fundamentals”, as it makes the person feel like a beginner(even though they are, beginner riders rarely want to admit it, especially if his personality is how you describe). Instead, something like “Hey, you ready to figure out how the board works?” will work wonders. This helps eliminate the “student-teacher” relationship and more a feeling of just riding/practicing together.

For feedback, I rarely point out things they are doing wrong. Reinforce what they are doing right or tell them the right moves they need to do and the bad habits disappear because they don’t need them anymore. Saying “Nice turn, but you keep your legs too straight and it’s keeping you from using your front knee to steer the board. So, bend your legs” is different than “Hey, if you bend your legs some more that front knee move will be more effective”. Both are good feedback and accomplish the same thing, but the second removes the sense that the student is doing anything wrong and only reinforces good movements.



Seriously? You sound like a better instructor than that.
Lol, speaking as one of those who had this happen to him by a buddy, I'm all for it. On my second day of riding, after falling on my arse so many times going down greens the week before, my buddy (expert skier) decides to take me down a sketchy black diamond run right after a blue warm up run. Then after lunch he launches me down a double black run with a bunch of pow. You have to have a 'headstrong' I can do anything mentality, even as a beginning rider, but it does work for the right people. I found it easier to ride the steeps than the greens through this. The following weeks my buddy and I spent nearly every second doing nothing less than a black diamond run (minus the 1st run as a warmup on blue). One thing that's important to note about this type of method with a 'headstrong' student is that the mere 'CHALLENGE' or riding something out of their comfort zone is exactly what some beginners need in order to realize that riding a snowboard is not rocket science, just point the board down the mountain and go for it. And for me, painting a challenge focused me on accomplishing my task and not fearing consequences of SUCKING ---

If your bro is really that headstrong, stay out of his grill unless he asks for advice. Maybe just go up the lift and ski down and tell him to follow. If he follows, crashes, w/e, then great. He'll either be super stubborn or decide that he has a question or two about how to NOT do that again. Instead of teaching him, guide him - if ya know what I mean. The reason I get this is because I don't wanna be told how to do ANYTHING unless I ASK :P So, let him be a pit bull to start with. Who knows, could be a natural if he already can wake board.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:39 AM   #23 (permalink)
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What's the difference between God and a ski instructor? God doesn't think he's a ski instructor....sorry, sometimes I laugh at my own jokes. Anyway, here is my story.

I learned to snowboard some 10 years ago, and I have ridden enough since then to know what I'm doing, or at least feel comfortable cruising almost any terrain, no fancy tricks. The problem is imparting that confidence to someone else, in this case, my wife. She has ski'd one day, years ago. Now in April this year I discover that a Glacier in Austria is still almost fully open. So I beg and plead and she agrees to go for some spring riding, and I promise to teach her. So we drive from Belgium 800km to The Alps, most on the German Autobahn, arriving tired and late at night and get a room. Next day we head up in the Gondola. Now we only have 2 days on the slopes, plus the one we just drove, and 1 day to drive back, as this thing called work could not be ignored for too long....as much as I would like to. We strap in and I show her a few things, or at least try to, I seem to be an impatient teacher, because after about 15 mins of getting frustrated with each other, I left her to practise and I buggered off to do what I already knew how to do, big mistake. I forgot how I felt the first time on a board. We are now both in our late 30's. It seems the older you get, the less keen you are to try new things, especially extreme sports. Well we managed to salvage the trip and have a nice time none the less, we now laugh about the whole thing, but I will admit, it was a very shitty thing that I did, dumping my beloved on the bunny slope and leaving her to figure it out. We thought it better to get her a pro lesson the next day, which helped, but we only had those 2 days.

My big question is: does anyone have problems teaching a partner, particularly someone you are married to? Are there any special tips? or do I need to just learn how to teach, period? We go back to the mountains in a weeks time, and she has said she will be taking up skiing again, which is fine I guess as I would also like to try it sometime. I'm just worried I might have put her off snowboarding.... On the other hand, she has just bought me a brand new setup for an early Christmas present, so maybe all is not lost.

I think I have answered my own question already, but am going to post this anyway......patience is the key, along with all the other tips in this thread, including the beer and shrooms
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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There is a sign in the base lodge at Stowe that says it all: "Friends don't teach friends how to snowboard."

I ride, my wife skis, which is even worse. I was riding for a few years before she got bored with being left home alone and decided to take up skiing (everyone told her snowboarding was too hard). She took a few lessons, then came up the mountain with me, but when she fell and had issues with her skis I couldn't do squat to help her. "I don't know anything about skiing!" She'd just get pissed at me. Fortunately she was willing to take more lessons. But I'd never try to teach a friend how to ride. You'll just get pissed that you're wasting your day waiting for him while you could be riding, and he'll just think you're a douche bag for not helping him. Sign up for a lesson. Or just get baked first, as one of the other posters said, and let gravity do the rest. Just be sure he wears a helmet.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Only advise I can give is a few basic things. First I would have him take a lesson, most resorts have a sweet package that includes rentals and a lift ticket. Seriously, LESSONS. Even if you are a good rider you will not be able to put into words what your brother needs to do in order to get the basics down. Also see if you can check out the burton "ltr" boards. Or burton learn to ride. Those boards are seriously challenging to catch an edge on, and will make any noob have a better day.

As an instructor ill give you some opinions on what he should focus on.

1) evenly bent knees. seriously front and back knees need to be bent evenly, shoulders paralell to the board. And by bent, i mean BENT. I usually tell kids to bend their knees as much as they can, take one look at them, then tell them to bend them some more. Most beginners have NO IDEA how much you really have to bend your knees.

2) initiate and lead the cave with the front foot. Teach him this right away or he will end up kicking his rear foot into the turns. Along those same lines make sure hes rolling his knee out towards the nose for heelside turns and rolling it in for toeside.

3) look where you want to go, and follow through with your upper body, most people really fight toe turns with their upper body at first, make sure his shoulders stay parallel with that board.

There are SO MANY more tips i could give, but those are what i would focus on for day 1.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Exactly my point! This tactic is not something I employ as my standard method and even when I do this, I make an accurate assesment of the rider`s capability and safety is always top priority. But some people in these programs are so arrogant that in order to actually get them ready to accept training you have to break them down a bit like a drill instructor in basic training does.

I actually, think that seeing this and thinking outside of the AASI box from time to time makes me a "better instructor than that". Now that I think about it, that was kind of a cheap shot Jim.....
I didn’t mean it as a cheap shot, I was just surprised because your posts are always spot on and I agree with a lot of what you say and I guess it came across harsher than meant.

I am sure you do it safely and your students aren’t at risk and you know what you are doing when you do resort to this method. I just feel there are better ways to handle that situation. In my experience teaching, handling students like that(pretty much 1/3 of the new instructors I train have the “cooler than you” attitude you are talking about). I used to handle it by breaking them down and out riding them and it worked and I thought that was the way to go.

But, I have since learned that there are better methods out there. To go out and have fun, ride with them, and offer them small tips on their personal riding. Maybe offer a small tip, then talk about it on the lift ride. If you offer the right tip, they’ll notice the difference it made in that one run and be more inclined to listen to you because in that one run you just added something to their riding. This method is hard because you need to know what tip to offer as odds are you’ll see a lot of things that need improvement. Or you can talk about taking something to the next level of difficulty, ie “Hey, that was a nice BS180 off that roller, ever try tail tapping in the middle of it?”. The options are endless.

What changed for me was a teaching concepts course taught by AASI. During one of the warm up runs on the first day of the course, the clinician was doing something with his turns and kept falling/sketching out on heelside. So at the bottom someone asked him about it, and he said it’s something he’s been playing with in his personal riding, explained it and then asked if we wanted to play around with it(I can’t remember what it was, or I would share it). So we did, played with it as a group and figured out where it worked and didn’t work. Then at lunch, we were talking and he explained that what he was “playing with” was a movement he used all the time in his riding and knew it applied to the group’s riding as a whole. But, he decided to teach it to us that way to remove traditional “teacher-student” roles and show that you don’t have to follow the rulebook. Take that method, adapt it to your arrogant students and see what happens.

One of the reasons the student is being arrogant is he’s reacting to being the student in the student-teacher relationship. Making them go down a trail that’s outside of their ability is only going to reinforce that. Why not try to get rid of the student-teacher relationship all together? Ride with them, joke around and have fun, and see what opportunities emerge. Throw out the “rules” of a lesson regarding traditional goal setting and structure and just go ride and see what learning opportunities emerge.


Peaceslyder, I agree that creating a challenging environment is a great way to keep someone from getting bored/frustrated/worried that they suck! However, that doesn’t necessarily mean taking someone down a knarly black diamond trail on the person’s second day. Challenges/games/etc can be found on any terrain.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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whenever i got a kid with the "im too cool" attitude id just bust out some crazy buttering moves and they would do whatever i told them after that so i would teach them how to do what i did.
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Old 12-14-2011, 07:03 AM   #28 (permalink)
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We went on Sunday, had a great time even though the conditions were not the best. I used a mix of everybody's advice and techniques. We spent about a half hour at the base working on skating and glides. I had planned on spending more time then that but I could see my bro was getting kind of itchy to just go do it. Rode up the lift together, I went over a few things, like, gliding off the lift, body position, knees bent ect. I had him watch me take a couple turns, then waited for him to catch up, few pointers from what I could see, then blast the rest of the bunny hill. I jumped back on the lift, caught back up answered a couple questions, then blast back to the bottom. Over lunch I had him re-watch the videos I had downloaded on my laptop, seemed to help. After lunch he made it down the bunny hill a couple times without falling.

I want to thank everyone who took the time to post all these tips and techniques, couldn't have done it without you guys.
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Old 12-14-2011, 07:26 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Do what my friends did to me.

Put him on a hill and let him figure it out. Seriously..... I had to watch other people getting on the lift in order to figure out that I needed one (and only one) foot strapped in. That is what I get for going with a bunch of skiers who've never been on a board, I suppose.

First run ever was a gentle blue during a night session. Things started to 'click' on the second day when I sat down on a bench for a few minutes and watched another snowboarder carving side to side most of the way down Casper run. It was an "Oh.*That* is what I'm supposed to be trying to do" type of moment.

I'm still not as good as that guy was (as I recall, he had rather obscene lean angles), but odds are that he was a local.
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:49 AM   #30 (permalink)
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awww that's cute...u's a good brother. Did he buy beers?
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