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How to go fast without catching edges?

61K views 57 replies 35 participants last post by  rasmasyean 
#1 ·
Everytime I seem to get going fast, I end up flat-basing and catch an edge. Any tips on how to stop doing this?
 
#8 ·
Just wanted to re-iterate what everyone so far has been saying.

I used to have the same problem as you when I first started too, but the thing that really changed my perception was to realize that you rarely ever want to flat base. And the faster you go, the worse it is to flat base because then you don't have as much control over your board. It starts to shift and get all squirrel-y under you.

A good thing to practice this season would be to start always staying on an edge as you pick up speed and start making your carves as straight down slope as possible. Once you get comfortable with that start bringing your board back down closer to flat base but always keep pressure on 1 edge at all times. Once you get the hand of this it will be second nature and the only times you'll ever truly flatbase from here on out is off the chair or maybe when you're just cruising along at a snail's pace.
 
G
#12 ·
It has a ton to do with conditions. East coast VS West Coast..........


If there is any ice you do NOT want to flat base. If it is choppy conditions you do not want to flat base. (normally east coast)

Now if you are first tracks and its deep powder then it is not nearly affected as much. (alot of times west coast) I just lean back and float until I reach a speed where small carves are needed.



When I am bombing it, I always keep on an edge BUT the board is always pointed directly down hill. Now the only time I will flat base is right before a roller and I want to ollie it, even at that its just for a second. Full control is ALWAYS seen on an edge for the most part because from flat base it takes a longer period to engage a turn especially in TOUGH situations, ie: unknown rock, big patch of ice, fellow skier/snowboarder thats just on the other side of roller/hill that you cant see.........

Where I snowboard in VT it is usually choppy conditions...........:thumbsup:
 
#16 ·
I think it also has much to do with the type of board you are riding!

I can flat base my Travis Rice at high speed on ice no issues! My Kessler Ride is even better & faster when flat based - with KST tech I often flat base it (little break) after a big long massive speed push.

Having said that, I took out a Nitro Pentera on a demo ride the other day and can tell you the board was very twitchy! Had to have it on edge most of the time and was much harder to flat base (flats and cat walks)!

So I'd say board have something to do with it as well as technique.

All the best.

Cheers...
 
#19 · (Edited)
X2 Depends on your board. Carving will help you keep command/maintain your speed. When I see people carving down the blacks, I end up bombing past them the bottom half. Having a Mervin's BTX sure does help. You just need to be comfortable transferring your weight from back to front when engaging carves back to flat basing. Different types of cambers on a board make the difference as to how you can approach this
 
#21 ·
I don't really get the question. I've never found the board anymore catchy at high speed. Or problematic completely flat based either. I assume the RC has a lot to do with this but in either scenario it's just not an issue. I know the the 'catchy' feeling but it's happened like 3 times and has always resulted in a minor adjustment, not an actual catch. I just don't get the need to stay on an edge :unsure:
 
#22 · (Edited)
To a certian extent, I think the more conditioned you are to riding and flatbasing while riding, any "squirelling" from flat basing will be automatically compensated by muscle memory and you will still be stable. It's just balance that comes with practice. But front weighting helps a lot.

The other thing that helps requires a modification of your board. You put a base bevel on the edge like 2-3 degrees. Looking from the front, it would look like \_________________/ ....but only 2-3 degreees, not like 60. You should also detune (round) the tip and tail sections which helps in pretty much all riding situations. Look it up on Youtube.

This mod will help reduce squirelling and edge catching at the expense of requiring more lean to turn and have a longer turn transition....which only matters if you're reacing anyway. Ppl also do this as a performance tune for rails, such that it will not catch on nicks in the rail and domino you. It's better than "rounding" as a crude method (aka detuning) so it's no longer sharp anymore. The latter will reduce riding performance on normal trails.

You can also do a side bevel to maintain the 90 degree L-shape of the edge.
 
#25 ·
Do not bevel the edge as noted below....you want a good edge for blasting...guaranteed going 50 mph you want edges and if beveled you are going to be squirrly, all over the place and be overcompensating your movements to get an edge, if you even get one with those beveled edges. You want the 90 degree edges to cut and bite....otherwise you will be washing out/wiping out. IMPROVE your skills.
 
#27 ·
there's obviously a way to haul ass flat without eating it. I've seen many people succeed...but, from their body language, it always looks like they're "all in" for the risk. I've also seen just as many people get all the way to the bottom...then eat it so hard at full speed, rescue has to carry them away. Scary.
 
#29 ·
from my limited experience , im in the staying on your edge concept.

you can of course flatbase it, but if the conditions are bad or choppy it takes very little for your board to catch some snow on top and just dig in...i never like to take that risk...personally i only flatbase when i am going extremely slow and just trying to make it pass a very long flat.

usually i try to keep sllight pressure on one of my edges, if i feel the board turning i go on the opposite edge...its basically going straight down and switching from edge to edge...i don't care if it scrubs off speed because it definitely allows me to feel a lot more in control than flatbasing it...and thats what i care about the most.
 
#30 ·
Going to fast?



Slow down either lean down hill or pull up on the rear, which ever way your mind makes it work.

If you are just learning and traversing a lot with the board perpendicular to the slope, both feet have to work hard to keep the down hill edge up, and this should be your primary focus when sliding down perpendicular. If it is not, you will catch that edge.

If are moving in a manner where you have a front foot and rear foot, and you get going too fast and start to get scared , you will learn on your up hill foot out of fear, if you you lean on the uphill foot, that foot will start to fall down the hill in an unexpected and manner, it will fall either toe or heel side, whichever one is bearing the weight. If you have the weight on the uphill toe, the board will come around and catch toe side and face plant. If your weight is on the heel, you wont see it coming and you'll end up on your back looking at the sky.

I learned to do a jump whenver I space out and my rear foot gets a mind of its own. It is usually on a very flat area and I start to relax, stand straigt up and start looking around for the rest of my group.
 
#31 ·
Edge bevel angles. 0/0 means zeroe degree base bevel and zero degree side bevel. This makes a 90 degree edge.

A 1/1 bevel means that on the base, the metal edge has a 1 degree upward bevel so that it is not come rely flush with the snow. When you put a bevel on the base edge, you still usually want a 90 degree edge so you typically match the base bevel on your side edge so if the base is 1 degree, you match it with a 1 degree side edge bevel.

Park boards often come from the factory with a 2 or 2 1/2 degree bevel to make them less prone to edge catches on features. Even with a park bevel, you really want to maintain a 90 degree edge so the side bevel is also 2 or 2 1/2 respectively.

Sometimes the side edge bevel is expressed in terms as it relates to the boards base so it will be 90, 89 or 88 degrees.

Some beginner boards have a 3/3 bevel to make them even more catch free. They are great for what they are designed for and for park, but suck for aggressive riding on firm snow.
While all this is true, detuning the tip and tail up to the contact points does help with that twitchy feeling on a lot of boards when flatbasing or just slightly on edge. This was especially true back in the camber days. I detuned the tip and tail on my NS and it does feel smoother when bombing, while leaving the base and side bevels stock past the contact points.
 
#33 ·
Everyone has their opinions on edge beveling, but here's some world cup recomendations.

Edge bevel tips for ski and snowboard

The only time you want a 0 degree base is during Slalom. AND in that situation, you want a severe side bevel to make your edge like 87 degrees instead of 90. This way it bites MORE during hard carves because you're pretty much always in it. Of course this wears out your edge more because it's "sharper", but you don't care because you're in it for the short race.
 
#34 ·
Blahblahblah, nothing of that contradicts our arguments (or supports your original post). In the table you linked none of the categories suggest more than 2 degrees of base bevel - in fact with the exception of 'spinners' and beginners they are all 1 percent or less.
 
#36 ·
This is not exactly true. You are only "washing speed off" if you are skidding. Being on edge does not equate to skidding and in many snow conditions, carving on edge is actually faster than riding with the base flat......;)
Regarding that, this is also another reason to bevel the base edge during racing. Because it will "lift" the base off the snow more giving you less friction during carves.

The reason why "slalom" tolerates near 0 base bevels, is because you are so high on edge that it doesn't matter, so turn initiation is the more important performance feature. But if you're in another less turny race, it is recommended to have higher base bevel. Not just for parks.
 
#37 ·


And how exactly does the edge, beveled or otherwise, actually "lift the base off the snow"? In a carve, the rider "lifts" the base by tilting the board. Please just stop trying to give "advice"; its really not your forte....;)
You're the one that says being on edge is faster than flat base. So naturally, if you have a base bevel, the same minor edging will result in MORE tilt, resulting in less "base" touching the snow! Obviously! :laugh:
 
#39 ·
It's not the edge bevel that determines or limits the angle of board tilt, it's the rider's use of angulation in the case of dynamic carving and inclination in the case of basic carving. A degree or two of bevel on 5MM wide metal strip on the edge of the board has absolutely no power to "lift the base off the snow" or prevent the rider from tilting the board.



Stop digging...:giggle:
If you have a 0 degree base bevel, an edge angulation of 1 degree is achieved by a 1 degree tilt.

If you have a 1 degree base bevel, an edge angulation of 1 degree is achieved by a 2 degree tilt.

If you have a 2 degree base bevel, an edge angulation of 1 degree is achieved by a 3 degree tilt.


Last time I checked, snow isn't a granite surface where I ride so the track made by a 3 degree tilt is thinner than a 2 degree tilt is thinner than a 1 degree tilt. Therfore...base beveling LIFTS more board off the snow! THUS, as you have observed yourself that being "slightly on edge" is faster than "flat basing", the more base you have touching the snow, the more suction, friction, whatever....slowing you down ever so slightly! Is that really that hard to understand?

You can say whatever you want about edge beveling, but the recomendations are for a reason. And is not "just for beginners". I was an expert rider when I started beveling and I put a 3/3 bevel on my Lib Tech Dark Series ADVANCED RIDING board. And it helped me "flat-base", spin easier, land without catching, etc. And I had FUN with it without worrying about catching an edge as much. Now did it reduce performance when carving down double black ice trails? Maybe...but I moved past that and focused on fooling arround on easier trails instead! I mean, I thought we were talking about teaching BEGINNERS anyways, so why you just want to argue by bringing up advance free-riding topics? :dunno:
 
#42 ·
I agree Donutz...I'll just add this one little snip it and say...WHERE was this thread just before I snowboarding!! I could have used these tips honestly...good information for any beginner/intermediate boarder..Thanks to all you guys with the ability to throw great detail in to your teachings..I have come a long way since I first found this forum and most of everything I have read on here has helped me out (Most not all) ;)

now let the thread die
 
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